Atrocities on Japanese Subs?

The Allied troops landing in Normandy were told not to take prisoners, since they had nowhere to put them. This was especially true of the airobrne divisions. It should be noted that many of the troops ignored this order, especially the seaborne forces.

 

Never! They did hand a few guys for doing just that.

Laconia incident was resulted in Doentz "Laconia order" i.e. order forbiding sub captains to save and/or help shipwrecked crew if such action would endanger safety of the boat (they should however if possible capture captains and/or first mates to get information). This order resulted in Doenitz being accused of war crimes in Nueremberg. This charge was dropped at the end as he managed to prove that in this case a number of allied skipers should also be draged in front a war crimes tribunal. Mind you that this order did not allow skipers to kill survivors.
BTW In pre-Laconia days U boat skipers routinly helped the shipwrecked survivors and in some cases also provided supplies to them and even reapired the life boats. To get insight one should really read Hirschfeldt's book "Feindfarthen - erinerung eines u-boot funkers" ( he was radio operator on U-109 and U-234).

 

you have to admire the uboat men as some of the bravest and most selfless fighters in modern history when yoy consider their virtually assured destruction in an iron coffin suddenly filling with icey black seawater and plungeing to the sandy floor 4000 feet below .perpetual frozen inky blackness ...brrr, i would rather serve in a red army mine clearing penal battalion ,i think

 

At least in a U-boat you have a 1 in 4 chance of survival...

 

Yeah, but in the last year of the war you could almost count on getting depth charged at least once during your patrol.

 

This order would present a clear case for war crimes tribunal. AFAIK no such specific order was given, however certain units did practice such actions (it is still for debate if Canadians or 12.SS PzGren started the tit for tat killing of POW's.

 

Gee TISO.
Just connect the dots, son.

The SS had a reputation for absolutely beastial atrocities against allied troops and civilians alike. Shooting POWs out of hand isn't such a stretch. I don't recall any pictures of liberating SS troops throwing candy to starving children. Grenades maybe.

Course it MIGHT be those evil Canadian lads what started it all eh?
Believe what you want to believe.

Tim

 

Acccording to all accounts Canadian forces who were rookies had horrendous losses before even getting to the German lines. Which could explain the fact that they DID shot German POW's. Your northern neighbours are not so cudly and fuzzy after they get pissed off.
And BTW Canadian reputation in Normandy was let's just say not too good in that regard.
Germans off course claim that Canadians started it with few HJ POW's they managed to capture and that they only reataliated. Canadians claim opposite or deny it ever happened. This could also explain relatively light sentance of 12.SS PzGren. commander after the war.

 

Your northern neighbours are not so cudly and fuzzy after they get pissed off.

and neither are we Americans.


I'm saying the SS reputation for cruelty to civilians and captured soldiers is well known and documented. Even in the last days of the war, SS troops butchered civilians for spite if nothing else. They knew to a man their cause was lost.
I assume you maintain the dirty business of executing prisoners was started by those savage Canadian troopers and the SS got a bad rap?
Musta been blood-lust that rubbed-off from fighting those blood-thirsty, heathen, sub-human 'Canucks, eh?
I rest my case.

Reminds me of a quote from "Platoon."
Charlie Sheen: "Do you have any problem killing women and children?"
Door-gunner in Huey: "Naw, you just have to lead them a little more."

Tim

 

Actually that was Full metal jacket, where Joker (Matthew Modine?) and Raptor-man are being helicoptered in to Hue IIRC.

IIRC the dialogue is more like:

Joker: "But how can you shoot women and children?"

Door Gunner: "Easy. You just don't hit 'em as much. Ain't war hell? (Laughs)"

Probably not quite word for word, but I can check the DVD at a later point.

 

as huey gunships approach , if a farmer drops his hoe and runs he must be a v.c. ...if he stands still , why then , he is prolly just a well disciplinned v.c....

 

Simon:
Thank you for correcting me... I occasionally get mixed-up.

Sounds like you were a Full-Metal Jacket fan!
It was an "impressionable" cinematic experience to be sure.

Tim

 

I used to watch Full Metal Jacket and Platoon both more or less non-stop as a teenager, as an aside I also did basic training with the British Army on the same base that Full Metal Jacket was filmed at.

 

i just noticed that the drill sgt from full mj was also one of the helo pilots with duval in the apoc now gunship attack on vc base .now he is the gunny on the tv show mail call ..also he was "coach " in the great " saveing silverman "comedy flic...

 

That's R. Lee Ermey, who has appeared in a remarkably large number of movies, considering that he's not an actor by profession. Of course, he normally plays Marines or ex-Marines. I have a friend who actually met him while she was in Kuwait a couple of years ago.

 

Back on the subject of brutality sometimes it can be indirect from your own side. In 1944 HMS Petard dropped depth charges among the swimming surviviors of a torpedoed allied ship when a japanese sub took cover beneath them. :-?

 

Ouch! I daresay that the crew of PETARD felt really bad about that afterward. No one likes having to do things like that to your own people.

 

No way!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Khedive_Ismail

&

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stor ... 2870.shtml (bottom half of the page)

Yes way unfortunately.

 

Such incidents happen in wartime, sadly enough, and more often than a lot of people realize.