Axis Victory???

What do you think that the Axis powers could have done to win WWII?

Germany: The biggest mistake was that in 1941 (I think) Germany haulted all science production. I still don't know why Hitler did this, but if he hadn't he could have had his jet planes probabily in 1942-43. If He would have had the jets then it could have given Germany the edge to rebound it needed badly on the Eastern front. That plus a slightly better stragiety in the invasion of the Soviet Union could have had a better outcome for the Third Reich.

Japan: THE biggest mistake Japan made was at Pearl Harbor. It wasn't the attack itself it was that Japan largely didn't bomb the Oil reserves that were at Pearly Harbor. If Japan would have taken out the Oil, it would have paralyzed the Pacific fleet for MANY months allowing for a possible invasion of the west coast and/or an invasion of Alaska. Or instead of invading America it could have at least besieged San Fransisco and the many other major US ports on the west coast with battleships.

What do you think the Axis could have done do assure victory for themselves?

 

Au Contrair, in both cases it was getting the US involved in the war. Germany, regardless of their research efforts, was not going to out technology or produce the US in anything for long. With the example you give, jet aircraft, the earliest Germany could have had one in production is the end of 1943; that being the He 280. The original production plan for this aircraft called for 300 to be produced in 1944.
In early 1942 the US, without a even a prototype jet airplane, was already gearing up to produce 5000 jet engines a month in a 6 million square foot facility. Jet production, likewise was focused on getting a flying prototype (the P-59) by mid 43 which did happen.
Had production of an operational jet been more of a priority the US could have matched the Germans with the P-80 by mid to late 44.
Japan, was simply put, screwed from the start. No matter what they did with the US they lose. Destroying the tank farms there buys them virtually nothing. They had absolutely no way to successfully invade Hawaii, Alaska or, the US itself. Remember, the largest amphibious landing they made was 2 reinforced divisions in Malaysia. And, that one nearly failed due to rather minor opposition on the beaches.
"Besieging US ports with battleships would have proved expensive. To remain within firing range would have allowed the substancial US coastal defenses to pound the Japanese. Then, the US also had a fairly large number of aircraft in the continential US so these would have quickly been a threat too.

 

Have to agree with TA on the substance of his argument. The only possible answer for both Germany and Japan was to keep the US out of the conflict. There are a few ways that could have happened, most of them improbable.

For Germany there were more problems than just halting their scientific research. They did not gear up their economy to what most people consider war-time levels until it was already too late. If they had put more of the civilian population to work (women) with around the clock production from the mid thirties then they would have had more of the tools of war at the army's disposal. That would have been a benefit. If they would have decimated the British Expeditionary force at Dunkirque and destroyed the majority of the RAF during the Battle of Britain they may have been able to get the United Kingdom to sue for peace and stay out of the conflict on the continent. That may have kept the US out of the European fight. Especially if they quickly disassociated themselves from the Japanese if they still attacked Pearl Harbor.

For Japan the task once again was keep the US out of the war. They could avoid most of the American Pacific properties, but not the United Kingdom holdings. This would make it very tricky to continue their expansion without drawing in the British, and the British bringing along the Americans. They could have fought in China a lot longer and continued to mollify the US diplomatically before the isolationists in America would have been overruled in congress. How far do they have to go to declare victory? I think if the Japanese could have focused upon the Chinese and left the British holdings alone they could have continued with impunity behind the vastness of the Chinese frontier. This would have also allowed them to stay more focused and reduced their logistical problems. While their navy was not up to competing with the US Navy they were certainly strong enough to control the Sea of Japan, protecting their supply lines and keeping anyone who wanted to meddle in their business away.

 

For Germany, the best way to keep the US out of a European war seems to have been declare war on Japan immediately following Pearl Harbor (yes, I've posted this idea before too...). This way the Germans kill two birds with one stone: They keep the US out of a war with them in Europe and, they all but kill lend-lease.
Improbable...Yes. Impossible....No.

 

I had thought of renouncing their alliance but not the act of declaring war. That is very interesting. They still have Britain, but yeah that could work.

 

T.A., this never occurred to me! What reasons might Adolf have to declare war on his ally after 07.Dec.1941? In any case it would be only a platonic war as Germany is somewhat far from Japan to have much bearing.

 

Like T.A. said, declare war on Japan and keep the allies from engaging Germany because of the Axis alliance. Purely political. A single front war would have been so much easier for his generals to pursecute.

 

Just thinking of the kind of U-turn politically Hitler made with the Ribbentrop pact of Aug 1939 with Stalin nothing really seems impossible with Hitler...

 

The usual scenario I use for a reason is based on Haushofer's geopolitical theories coupled with Nazism's Aryan racial policies. It goes something like this Haushofer, a Heer Colonel and influencial in German foreign affairs meets with Hitler right after Pearl Harbor. He explains to Hitler that the US is not part of the world mass Germany needs to conquror. Additionally, Haushofer notes that the US has the largest Aryan population in the world...larger than Germany's! So, it only makes sense that Germany should encourage and assist the US against Japan.
Of course, the Nazi's would also try enlisting promenent Americans like Lindburg to further their casuse once they declare war.
Thus, by keeping the US out of Nazi dreams of conquroring Russia and Eastern Europe and, limiting their assistance to Britain Germany benefits greatly. Down the road Germany and the US have a little tiff of their own complete with mushroom clouds.....

 

I recall reading, probably from Skorzeny´s book, that back in time in the US it was voted whether the German language would be THE official language spoken there. And Hitler was very fond of this idea. Any truth in this story?

This would back Hitler´s "romantic" ideas about making deals with the US I guess.

 

Amazing, I never would have imagined that level of in-depth thought on the matter. Congratulations T.A.. I like the mushroom cloud part too.

 

Long ago I heard what Kai-Petri mentioned, that when we still a very young country, German almost became America's official language . When I heard that, I tried to track down the item but became discouraged and stopped. That was in the BG days, "Before Google". I await someone else here on WWIIF to find it out for us. The question raises all kinds of wild speculation.

 

Had to go learn about that one. Wonderful thing Google!

busted we almost spoke german myth

I cannot help but think that the current histrionics over the use of Spanish in the United States would sound a lot different in German, Sprechen sie duetsch? No, no habla duetsch.