Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by zeppelin5000, Jan 11, 2018.
Hey guys, Thought I'd show the bayonet I got for my Garand
Is the blackened blade standard?
Did the carbine come with a bayonet?
Yes, that was standard for the blade. I believe the carbine could use the same bayonet.
Until c.1918, US bayonet (M1905 pattern) blades were unfinished (i.e. metallic, sort of a bright polished appearance). After that all blades were parkerized (phosphate coating). The colour of parkerizing varied and was typically either a dark grey or a gunmetal/black. The blade of the bayonet in the photos above appears to be oiled, which makes it look blacker than it actually would be. In 1943 the decision was made to reduce the 16" blade of the M1905 pattern to 10" which resulted in the M1905E1 (for M1905s that had their blades cut down) and the M1 (new production bayonets with factory 10" blades).
M1 Carbine? Initially there was no provision for a bayonet to be mounted. In 1944 a modified front barrel band was issued which included a bayonet lug. This modified front band ("Type 3") was fitted some late war production guns in the factory, and later retrofitted to most M1 Carbines during postwar refurbishment. M1 Carbines with the Type 3 band saw some service in 1945 (mostly in the Pacific) but the Type 3 band was primarily a post-war/Korea feature. There were several other modifications made to the M1 Carbine at the same time, including changing the safety from a push-button to a rotary switch, and a more precise rear sight which was adjustable for windage.
The bayonet is not the same as the M1 Garand. The M1 Carbine used a M4 bayonet (patterned after the M3 fighting/utility knife). This entered service in 1944. The M4 makes an excellent utility knife. Well balanced and compact. The postwar 1953 pattern of M1 Garand bayonet (M5) was patterned after the M4, as was the M6 designed for the M14 and the M7 designed for the M16.
Nice American Fork and Hoe bayonet. Rich A. in Pa.
M-4 ans M-5 bayonets. Rich A. in Pa.
Thanks. I have a bunch of M-1 bayonets and none have a crossguard number like yours. One has marks from when it was shortened. Rich A. in Pa.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if those numbers were normal or not...
Here are some of my bayonets with other marks. No number on the crossguard.A SA 1918 cut down UFH overstamp of serial number,AFH like yours but no number,Wilde Tool UFH marked,AFH UFH marked. Rich A. in Pa.
It's probably an armory stamp. I've seen similar markings on certain equipment I was issued. Some units marked unit equipment, some didn't, don't know why, just know they did.
I do not know. Why would they number the bayonet? It must have been used by another country. Of the 6 cut down type I have none have any numbers on the crossguard.I have to look at my uncut bayonets. The UFH is Union Fork and Hoe that did the modifying. Rich A. in Pa
From some quick research, I think the bayonet may have been Greek used.
That makes sense.Rich A. in Pa.
The bayonet that fits on my M1 also fits my 03 Springfield.
I don't know that for sure, just speculating. Over the years, I have been issued knives (Ka-Bar) and bayonets that had a number stamped on them by the armory for that particular unit. You'd have an weapons receipt/armory card that you turned in to draw your weapon(s) and accesories, it contained a description and a serial number; sometimes a rack location and butt stock number (a stenciled number painted on the stock). I think I still have an old armory card somewhere for an M-1911.
The Marine Corps uses them almost universally, the US Army in the majority of combat units I've been associated with, I've even seen Airforce weapons cards believe it or not. They are in different formats and the items associated with them varies with unit SOP.
Example: Name: Ragman, Joe S., Rank: LCpl. SSN/Service Number:, Organization: "I" 3Bn 6thMar Nomenclature: Service Rifle, cal 5.56 Model: M16A2, Serial No.:411739 Weapon Location, Rack No.: S-102, Butt No.:147. I acknowledge receipt of the above Items, date and payroll signature (above typed name).
Example: Name: Ragman, Joe S., Rank: LCpl. SSN/Service Number:, Organization: "I" 3Bn 6thMar; Nomenclature: Service Rifle, cal 5.56 Model: M16A2, Serial No.:411739, Bayonet, Rifle, M-7 2649 (using the number from the above picture), Weapon Location, Rack No.:. S-102, Butt No.:147. I acknowledge receipt of the above Items, date and payroll signature (above typed name).
I actually had a card once that had Machine Gun, Caliber 7.62 mm, M60, w/accesories; Pistol Cal.45, M1911A1 and Knife, Fighting/Utility all listed. The Ka-Bar had an armory number stamped on the pommel and listed on the card.
I have in my collection, a WWII era USN Mk2, that I traded an armorer for that has the armory stamp on it.
Anyway proceedure is/was you went to the armory, presented your ID and weapon card, they secured the appropriate weapons and verified the serial numbers and gave them to you along with returning your ID. The retained the card in your weapons slot for accountability purposes. If you had the card on your person, the armory was responsible for your weapon(s), if the armory had it you were responsible. In the latter case you didn't get your card back until the weapon and all issued accessories were clean and accounted for and you turned them in. When you deployed that could be months or a year or more. If a bayonet, Ka-Bar, etc. turned up missing they'd hold a gear inspection for all hands and/or a shakedown in order to identify the thief. I asked my older son if they still used them, he said yes, now they also include things like optics, lasers, flashlights etc.
Now I'm not sure how widespread the use of said cards was during WWII, I have seen a few examples, but it was widespread by the time of Korea and nearly universal during Vietnam.
We’ve had a few stolen weapons ove the years...even a raid here in Darwin that stole a number of steyrs...I think bikies were behind it...what’s the theft rate in the US? Is it, was it ever a problem?
It happens, but here in Wyoming it's fairly rare. I've even occasionally left my hunting guns in my car, in a public place, for a number of hours but they were there when I returned. I do remember a couple of dealers who claimed guns were stolen when they weren't. The idea was that they would then sell to unqualified people for a hefty mark-up AND get the insurance money to boot. Both of these people were caught and lost their FFL and went out of business.
What about military weapons...a couple of ASRAWs were even stolen in Australia...
I wasn't really trying to get into stolen small arms/crew served weapons, that's relatively rare. Misplaced, or lost happens, and when it does it gets real serious. It's the other TOE gear that goes missing more often. Lensatic compasses are a serialized item and disappear all the time. Some items aren't serialized such as bayonets, binoculars and knives, etc. they disappear with some frequency and that's why units often stamp/engrave them in order to keep up with them. Deuce gear such as canteens, ponchos, etc. are lost all the time and they just replace them and take it out of your pay because it's signed out to you, you're supposed to always have it in your custody or secured, so if it goes missing you're at fault but, they're easily replaced, they have tons of it. The need to secure your gear is beat into you from day one, an unsecured weapon (if not in the custody of the armory) or an unsecured footlocker is dealt with harshly. Losing an ID or your weapons card can be a serious offense. Most people that have never been in the service don't realize the lengths large military organizations go to in order to insure gear/weapons accountability, even for relatively small things. It's not a glamorous topic, it's virtually never mentioned in books or first person accounts, but it's often the reason behind the "hurry up and wait" factor.
If you'd like an interesting read with additional info, here:
Inside a Marine armory - The Firearm Blog