Best Artillery of WWII ?

Time for a good old fashioned "best of" thread again.

Which nation had the best artillery in terms of organisation, guns, equipment and fire controll ? We´re talking quality here, not quantity, so size doens´t count.

 

US.....as l've stated in an earlier thread...

 

Yes, the answer to this one was perhaps too obvious.

 

One could argue in favour of Britain, since they were probably the most reliant on artillery to open their offensives of all countries engaged, and were also the first to realize the need for a gun that could handle both the jobs of the field gun and the howitzer.

Didn't Russia also have some pretty good guns, like the 76.2mm and the 122mm?

 

One addenda: it's the manager of our club, whio after removing 15 metric tons of snow with his SUV (with plow attacment) he found a few mnutes ago that a muniical snow plow had just blocked our entrance again..HE threw a rock ver 100 yards and hit the offending truck with a rsounding "THUD!" hahahahah! .. gotta go! snow-ball fight on the coutyard...

 

The British and Americans were almost equal with the Germans not too far behind, but I think the edge goes to the US, mostly because of the US fire control system, whcih contrary to an earlier psot was fantasticly flexible, allowing one FO to bring down the combined fire of many divisions and corps artillery in minutes. This is also one reason why the Germans always cop out and blame allied materail superiority for their defeats.
Soviet artillery was plentiful, but inflexible and was most effective in direct fire roles.
I think the US 105mm (33pdr) was somewhat better than the Brit 25pdr (~90mm).

 

If there's one thing that always functioned as it should in the German army during WW2, then it was its Artillery !!

Since the first day of the landings in June 6, the German artillery wrecked havoc amongst Allied troops !!.

The standard 105mm howitzers were amongst some of the most effective and precise artillery pieces of WW2 !

Not to mension the German 150mm and 128mm guns !!.

I'd say the Germans were at the top in artilllery with the Russians !.

KBO

 

As far as I know, though admittedly I know little in this field, American artillery was renowned for its accuracy while German artillery wasn't renowned for anything. In fact, I've never heard any good word about German artillery; in Normandy the Allies were much more shocked by the fact that the German divisions there lacked artillery but made up for it with mortars, a much more lethal weapon in the Bocage.

 

The German artillery was also renowned amongst "German" troops because of its reliabillity and striking power. And U.S. artillery wasnt one bit more accurate !. The U.S. artillery was very precise yeah, but, no more than German artillery ! Soviet artillery was "Brutal" and not really precise, but i can tell that when those 152mm soviet howitzer's started to open fire "you didnt want to be in their way !!.

KBO

 

Many Germans would argue with you in that point-and so at least would one US artillery expert:"With few exceptions, the Allied Armies were able to sweep across France much as had the Germans in the opposite direction five years earleir, curiously utilizing the same terrain and the same techniques. But in strength of manpower and materials the diferences were vast. A fabulous 23 artilery pieces per 1000 men (copmpared to 4 per 100 in WW!)had made the American army in Europe as fully armed and powerful a GErmant's had ever hope tobe in WW1" But the US was not destroting the enemy with massive firepower alone, but rather more organized fire contrls. An 8 -inch battalion commander exlaines that " We use a computer for each gun and handle each gun separately. When time permits (and it ussually does) we compute map range and map shift (deflection) and measure using graphical plotting) only asa check against huge error. We do not use the HO and VCO as such, but have made oputers of them"..

"mass artillery fire, when most cunningly planned and executed was te TOT (Time on Target) misison nicknamed "a wreck" (at division level) a "serenade )at corps level) and variouslya "bingo or a "stonko". "Captured German letters were onsiderable indications of individual reaction:" You have no idea of what is going on here (teh Italian Theater) Simply by using his rtillery, the American is finnishing us up here. Such massed artillery fire l have not seen even in Russia. The apraisal of Grman commanders was equally convicing:" The GEeman artillery has not been able to cope with America artillery from First Army. The counterbattery fire has been negigible. Massed ires are rare and brief. Harassing programs have been inaccurate and incomplete..GErman artillery fires (despite tactical advantages in terra and vissibility continued to fall in the wrong place"
Comparato, op. cit.pag.254-56

 

I think US (and Brit) fire control was superior to that of the Germans, although as I said it appears all three were quite close. Although I think the allied material superiority card is vastly overplayed by German apologists, the western allies had more, and better, artillery and shells than the Germans did.
The point about the Germans mastering mortar fire is very good and comes up often in WWII histories.

 

What i said was that the guns used by German artillerists were no less accurate than U.S. artillery guns !. I didnt say the Germans had more guns !! They never had and never would have !!.

However when it comes to making artillery the Germans were supurb ! And there guns state of the art !. How well they organized them is another matter

The biggest and most powerfull gun ever created....German 80cm Dora ! 8)

The Germans had one severe problem when refering to artillery.. "Too many caliber guns !!" wich would explain why sometimes it could be difficult to organize all those different artillery pieces, and open a mass-artillery-barrage.

KBO

 

No argument KBO. The US 105mm was essentially an improved copy of a German WWI howitzer. "The best artillery" is somewhat open to interpretation. I approached it more as "the most effective" instead of the best made guns.

 

Well, they didn't start out with too mny calibers (75,105, 150, 210-"DORA" was a a freak monster gun. But as the wore wore one,when theyrewere thousands of captured enemy tubes in good condition they were pressed into service..from British 3,7 inch A.A. to 2 pdrs, frtm French 75s to 194 mms and every caliber in between.. from Russian 76 mm to 122 and 152
and when you do that there's a price to pay..in terms of logistics, though from what l heard they concentrated all their odd calibers in certain sectors so as to obtain maximum efficiency-For another, mass artillery barrages (as far as l know) have more to do with proper spotting techniques, and communications equipment because as WW2 progressed, US units utilized captured German arillery pieces in some quantities, most notably their 150 and 170 mm guns... One of Patton's batallions used captured Russian 76,2mm guns and Schneider 155 mm hows which were taken from the Germans. Another III Army Battalion of SPG M12 (WW! GPS made n the US aboard tank chassis) tst fired lots of captured enemy amm so that firing tables could be made and the large quantirties of captured shells were later used in combat. Many US artillery battallions were given a couple of captured guns for makeshift "Z" batteries..


Best Regards! :smok:
P.S. goit any more photos?...

 

Well the Germans actually produced shells for the captured Soviet guns ! And also for varius others !.

P.S. what photo's do you want ? :smok:

 

You're right about the German how canabridge-The Us Army pressed 300 of them into serviec after WW1 as one historian notes :" with little pretense of Americanization". and the US M2A1 was very much like the German original

German 1898/09
weight: 3045 lbs
Length t: 18 calibers
Muzzle Velocity: y 1400 feet/s
Elevation Max.40o, minimum- 9o.
Traverse: e 4 degres left and right
Shell" 34 lbs
Range 10.610 yards

M2A1
weight: 4980 lbs
lenght: 22 calibers
Muzzle velocity 1550 f/s
Elevation Max.66o. minimum- 9o.
Traverse:
Pintle type23 o. left and right
Shell: 33 lbs
Range 12,205 yards

 

Yes,they did-(they actually poduced almost 1 million round for some of the 3,7"-inch A.A. left at Dunkirk...)butprobably because of the high demands made in other feidls (U-boats, aircraft, home defense) front units did not have the fire control equipmemnt tthat matched what the US had...and l think that is what is primordial..but then again am a dumb old grunt...

P.S.: whatever you have, (British guns would be nice )here in the forum we have seen an abundance of German , US and oher materials-and as teh man that was taking home a blonde, a red-head and a brunette said "variety is the spice of life"

 

How about a 25pdr ? 8)

 

Yet another :smok:

 

A german gun that is constantly overlooked is the 17cm Kanone 18 Moserlafette and mounted on the carriage of the 21cm Morser 18. This gun was equipped with a dual recoil system and fired a 138pound shell to over 32,000 yards. It weighed 38,630 pounds in action and was a sound design. Any thoughts on this gun and how it compared to others? Personally I think it was amongst one of the best artillery peices of the war. Perhaps even better then the American 8in M1 since the M1 was excedingly heavy although it had better range and a heavier shell.