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Best Modern Tank

Discussion in 'Post-World War 2 Armour' started by !ACHTUNG!, Jan 21, 2006.

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What do you think is the best modern tank?

  1. 1.Abrams M1A2

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  2. 2.Leopard 2A6

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  3. 3.Merkava Mk.4

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  4. 4.T90

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  5. 5.Challenger 2

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  1. !ACHTUNG!

    !ACHTUNG! New Member

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    Challenger Mk.2 is better protected against chemical attacks then Leopard 2A6.Thanx to Chobham armour.Which is,buy the way,much more expensive.
     
  2. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Chobham armour or otherwise has nothing whatsoever to do with protection against chemical attacks, unless you mean chemical energy attacks (hollow charge).
    And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Leo 2 has Chobham or a variant thereof anyway.
    Leo 2 has more than a metre of armour on the turret - a brilliant mix of spaced and (some sort of) composite and is (very probably) in much the same ballpark, protection-wise as Chally 2.
    What is more expensive? Leo 2, Chally 2 or Chobham? And if it's Chobham then it's more expensive than what?
     
  3. Gryle

    Gryle New Member

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    Apparently it doesn't (probably) best guess at this point is that's it's mostly perforated steel plates rather than any sort of composite. Of course the people who know for certain aren't saying anything.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Perforated steel plates???

    How does that help?
     
  5. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Reduced weight compared to non-perforated and is effective in breaking up smaller-calibre rounds since the perforations offer varying resistance on the frontal area of the pentrator.
     
  6. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Found some prices: they may be of interest. My comments in [square brackets]
    M1A2 $4.3m
    Leclerc $9m to UAE [this must include spares etc - although Leclerc is probably the most heavily computerised tank around at the moment]
    Challenger 2 $5.4m (including logistic support)
    Challenger 2 £4m [today's conversion is about $7m, but I don't have a date]
    Leopard 2A4 $1.3m to Finland - used
    Leopard 2A6 $11m to Greece [probably includes support]
    T-54/55 $0.95m
    T-62 $1m
    T-64 $1.1m
    T-72/74 $1.5m
    T-80UM2 $4m [the first of the Russian tanks with a realistic price since they had to compete on an open market - the previous prices for Russian tanks are not "real" in that they were heavily subsidised by the Soviet economy - but still incredibly cheap especially considering the UM2 has Arena]
    T-90 $3.8m
    T-95 $4.65m
    Black Eagle $4.5m
     
  7. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    But the armour has holes in? :eek:

    Now, logicaly, I would assume that it is made up of many layers of perforated plate sandwiched together so that the holes don't line up - but surely having lots of holes weakens the metal?
     
  8. Gryle

    Gryle New Member

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    That's right. The plates have holes tailored to the expected threat, say 30mm sub calibre projectiles/long rod penetrators so that on impact with the first plate you get a variety of effects including the free edge effect where as the edge nearst the hole isn't confined so it will turn the penetrator towards it, perhaps to the point of breaking. If not when it intersects the next plate where the holes are in a different location causing the forces acting on the penetrator to change direction. Basically it trys to turn or break the projectile by causing it to "snake" through the armour, or so goes the theory. I'm afraid I may not have explained it very clearly, but its at the limit of my understanding as it is, so if anyone knows a bit more ...
     
  9. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Hmmm, I do get the theory, but it does seem a little hairy to me.
    Surely this would increase the vulnerability of the tank to HEAT-type rounds?
     
  10. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Might work a bit like spaced armour. The plasma jet from a HEAT round hits a perferation and expands into the space. So possibly you end up with a wider but shallower strike area.

    Just off the top of my head.
     
  11. Gryle

    Gryle New Member

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    I wouldn't have a clue mate. The Canadian Leopard 1's recieved a couple of upgrades that I believe included both this type of technology and ceramic inserts which significantly boosted their protection versus both KE and CE threats respectively, and the Leo2's have undergone a bunch of upgrades since they were introduced, what it included I don't know but it's basic armour is still alot to try and cut through even for a shaped charge.
     
  12. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    I would assume that if "half" the jet's width hits metal and the other "half" hits nothing then the overall stream is going to suffer some disruption, making it less coherent. There'd be a chance of inducing turbulence into the flow which would reduce pentration.
     
  13. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Any idea how big these holes are?

    (btw - thanks Gryle for your explanation :) )
     
  14. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    from http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?sh ... ntry196493 at Tanknet. And apparently Leo 2 includes Burlington in its armour composition as well.
    I think this quote gives a better idea of the reasoning
    It's not an "armour" in and of itself, but part of a layered system aimed at degrading penetrators so that the final deep armour layer is more effective.
     
  15. Gryle

    Gryle New Member

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    Well first up I obvoiusly don't know for sure. But having said that we can make some educated guesses. The presumed threat would be long rod penetrators, these have a typical diameter of around say 30-40mm. We want (for maximum effect) these to strike on or near the edges of the holes, so they can't be larger (or at the very least much larger or it might be able/more likely to slip though one of these holes) so I would guess 25-35mm maybe. For arguments sake call it 30mm. Spacing and patterns, we want any hit (if it doesn't hit exactly on the edge) to to be close enough to still be affected, be the presence of the hole. From memory I think I've seen a study on free-edge effects vs WWII full calibre projectiles and the effect drops off at around 2 calibres from the edge so the holes should be fairly widely spaced at say around 150-200mm center to center in a hexagonal pattern. The plates themselves should probably be stacked so the effects will stress the penetrator both horizontally and vertically, so maybe some sort of spiral pattern as you go through the plates? backed up with a solid heavy plate?

    Just a guess :)
     
  16. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    I ahve heard that the AP of the Abrams tank include depleted uraninum in them for better penetration. Is this true and is it "legal" to use on a battlefield.
     
  17. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    yes and yes :wink:
     
  18. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    AFAIK DU is used in the glacis of the Abrahms for much the same reason as it is used for AT shells - it is very dense.

    While there are still concerns raised about long-term health effects of DU armour (and ammo)* there is no real evidence as yet.

    *Most of the concerns are about what happens the the DU when it is penetrated / it penetrates armour - something to do with it being heated and/or shedding particles. My brain has not retained that information. :oops:

    There is a long topic about DU on here (search for 'DU'), but unfortunately it had to be locked...
     
  19. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    Don't really look accurate, the Leopard2a6 is said to be cheaper than the Abrams, on this list its more than twice as expensive, that doesn't seem right,does it?

    Leopard2 armor:
    The armor is made of multiple layers of armor steel, special ceramics and spacing, this is no big secret, the big secret is how much mm of armor steel, how much mm of ceramics and how much mm of space there is.
    Only the developers know this and for them the task was to make a good mix of these 3 main elements.

    The add-on armor is made of armor steel with a zig-zag structure n it so it shatters or re-directs incoming shells some how.

    About Chobam:
    Alot of people (including some here) think that Chobam armor is something really special that only the Brits have, but Chobam armor also consists of multi-layered armor with ceramics parts trown into the mix, its the same principel as the German Leopard2 armor.
     
  20. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Re-read it. Leo 2 prices include support - which is probably spares as well, it's a total package price.
     

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