It would help if I knew the terminology, but you guys will know what I am trying to say. Did a bomber "group" at an airfield ever have a mix of planes.....B-17 and B-24 for example.....or was it better if a mission had all the same planes.? And also, would a B-17 pilot ever find himself in the seat of a B-24 (or the opposite) for one reason or another.....probably not as a pilot, but maybe as co-pliot.? I guess there would have been too many differences in controls and procedures to suddenly jump from a 24 to a 17..... Thank You
Each squadron had the same planes, easy for repair parts. Some airfields had more than one Squadron, so yes, differing aircraft did occur at the same airport. Especially those that started out with Sterlings, Wellingtons and / or Halfiax's in the RAF. For now, until I can find the link that includes aircraft type: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Royal_Air_Force_stations EDIT: See here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/raf-bomber-command/9361471/Every-RAF-Bomber-Command-base-in-England-mapped.html
The First Provisional Bombardment Group in North Africa is the only group I know of that simultaneously operated both types. It consisted of the B-24 remnants of the HALPRO Detatchment and 10 B-17s transferred from India. The B-24s later split off to form the 376th Bomb Group. There were some 8th AF B-24 groups that transitioned to B-17s so all those pilots flew both types. The 2nd Bomb Division retained B-24 groups. Many of the B-24 from the transitioning groups were sent to the 15th AF. The B-24 and B-17 did not usually operate together in formation as their preferred cruise speeds were just enough different to make it uncomfortable.
I kind of figured there would be a bunch of that stuff. Gunners would have to get use to 2 different situations...bombardiers...navigators...etc etc. Even if each plane had the appropriate crews, there would be the difference in size, wing placements, air speeds, etc etc.....better to keep it all uniform if possible. Was just curious is all...kind of a pointless question I suppose. Thanks for the replies.......
Denny, if you get just the right scale Google Earth will show airplane symbols dotted all over the UK and often in rural areas. . If you click on them many are RAF bases. Often they have reverted back to farms but you can still see the runway patterns, others are local airports, or industrial estates. Am yet to find a *th AF base. Fun to do . In the UK there are many maps and booklets on the subject, at least there were. The Brits here can verify.
For airfields in UK have a look at this. Choose Map of Great Britain, with all RAF airfields, dated 31 December 1944 http://marketgarden1944-2014.pre-jump.nl/zoomable.html http://marketgarden1944-2014.pre-jump.nl/deep-zoom/airfields-england/embed.html
The Fifth Air Force mixed air plane types within "Air Task Groups". These "groups" were not recognized the GHQ of the USAAF but were somewhat a permanent arrangement that allowed Kenney to put the necessary forces where they were needed on spite of the dearth of suitable air fields in the SWPA. Eventually two were formalized into bombardment groups with a recognized staff and leadership but they contained a mix of aircraft, including fighters. I'll see if I can find the group numbers for them. Edit. I found it. The air task groups were formalized as wings, not groups and were 308th, 309th, & 310th Bombardment Wings. The were active around the Philippines.
Generally speaking, didn't every unit up to wing level fly the same aircraft? That was my understanding but I could be wrong. I'm using the "USA" wing which would have, I believe, around 9 squadrons.
Wow.....there is A LOT of Info/Maps in that first link. Would love to have that Stalingrad map in a big size.! What exactly was a ... RAF Water Airfield.? .....Something with flying boats...or in conjunction with the Navy perhaps.? Thanks
Yes, the AAF did maintain consistency within the bombardment wings, at least in Europe. There may have been some temporary mixing when some B-24 groups transitioned to B-17s but I'm not sure there. 8th AF wings were typically 3 groups with 4 squadrons per group. 15th AF wings were mostly 4 groups of 4 squadrons. The 5th Wing had all 6 B-17 groups. The 49th wing had 3 B-24 groups.
This is a list of all the Units assigned, at one time or another, to the 308th Bomber Wing that may be a good indication how diverse they could be. Quite a mix of aircraft. Pilots from just about any Squadron could be asked to "volunteer" to fly planes they were not familiar with. One case I know of was a fighter pilot was tasked with flying a C-47 having never seen the drivers seat before. Given a brief overview he flew it to a distant new airfield base and was later picked up for a ride back to his squadron. I guess the thinking was "A plane is a plane"? There was always someone to assist, engineer-navigator etc so they were not totally alone. http://digicom.bpl.lib.me.us/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1105&context=ww_reg_his HONOR ROLL 0£-Tactical Air Units Which Participated In Combat Operations Commanded By The 308th BOMBARDMENT WING FIGHTER GROUPS: 8th (P-38) 18th (P-38) 35th (P-47-51) 49th (P-38; P-40) 58th(P~47) 348th (P-51) 475th (P-38) MEDIUM BOMBER GROUPS: • 3rd (A-20; B-25) 22nd (B-25; B-24; B-26) 38th (B-25) 312th "(A-20) 345th (B-25) 417th(B-25; A-20) HEAVY BOMBER GROUPS: 43rd (B-24) 90th (B-24) 380th (2sqdns only-B-24) 494th (B-24) RECONNAISSANCE SQUADRONS: 17th (B-25) 82nd (P-51; P-40; P-39) llOth (P-51; P-40; P-39) NIGHT FIGHTER SQUADRONS: 418th (P-61) 419th (P-61 42lst (P-61) 547th (P-61) PHOTO SQUADRONS: 8th (F-5; P-38) 25th (F-5; P-38) 26th (F-5; P-38) 3rd AIR COMMANDO GROUP: 3rd AC Sqdn. (P-51; C-47) 4th AC Sqdn. (P-51; C-47) TROOP CARRIER GROUPS: 39th (C-47) 318th (C-47) 375th (C-47) LlASION SQUADRONS: 25th (L-5) 157th (L-5) 160th (L-5) NAVY AND MARINE CORPS: VMF 115 DSMC VMF2ll VMF 218 VMF 313 VMF (N) 541 DSMC VB ll7 USN (PB4Y) 24th MAG (SBD) 32nd MAG (SBD
Ah.....so the story grows. No doubt a competent pilot could fly several different planes, especially if "assisted". I would still think it to be a challenge but, probably, also fun for a pilot.
No apologies for posting one of my favourite pics again - as 8th AF airfields have been mentioned. Sadly, most have now been broken up with the concrete sold off as hardcore for roadbuilding, or built over for housing. Here's how they used to look - in this case, Thorpe Abbotts, home of the 'Bloody Hundredth'. Picture of the main runway taken in August 1988 - within three weeks, this view had vanished forever..... If you can't imaging those B-17s returning from Germany.....well.........
None necessary Martin. I look at that photo and wait for it to dissolve into the 1942 flashback ala "12 O'Clock High" when Stovall rides his bike out to the old airfield. Denny, certainly pilots could fly other aircraft, but you'd want them to have some time in type before they took them into combat.
Yes, you certainly would think that the pilots would have some transition time, but sometimes it didn't happen. I've read that some fighter pilots learned how to fly P-47s and P-51s by flying them to Germany on a bombing mission!
I got that ol' feeling a couple years ago standing at Wendover airfield. After walking pass the Officers Quarters building, then looking South East you could almost hear the B-29s returning to base after a practice run. When the 348th FG got the new P-51 (Jan. 1945), the 341 Sqd. were the first to trade in their old Jug's. There were suppose to receive 30 days training but were flying escort missions within 10 days.
