Britain at War: North Africa and the Italian Campaign

Article on Britain's Desert and Italian campaigns with 5 minute video.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ar-North-Africa-and-the-Italian-Campaign.html

‘Before El Alamein, Britain never had a victory;’ Churchill used to say after the war, ‘after El Alamein she never suffered a defeat.’

 

Well the real british contribution to the african campaigns and to the invasion of Italy was very limited.

The troops that some historians call "british" were instead a large coalition of allies from all the Commonwealth countries and over, like the french and the greeks. More over, all these troops had the best armament like the Matilda tanks that made the difference during the battle of El Alamein.

Then, when the operation Torch began, there were also the americans.

The british almost never fought alone since 1940. When they were caught alone in Somaliland from the italian troops, they escaped. And when they had to defend Malta under the italian attacks, they were nearly to the collapse before the american coming.

The world won the WW2 led from the americans and the russians, this is the truth despite somebody tries sometimes to personalize some merits.

 

Hear. Hear. Posting the origins and sources for what you have posted is always a good thing.

 

I consider "british" the troops who came from Uk, as I consider italians the troops who came from Italy.
Considering this point of view, the real british at war among the allies were a small part of them.
It's not a news saying that the british since several time were accostumed to face wars overusing foreign troops from all the Commonwealth as outpost.
You can see the battle of Britain or El Alamein, the massive foreign support never missed.
And then also the great americans with their power helped the british to save themselves from the axis.
However, despite all, the italian army that hadn't resources (like the armament) comparable to the allies, accomplished several winning battles only thanks to the human skills of their brave soldiers:

1940
June 13 - Italian destroyer Strale sinks British submarine HMS Odin off Taranto.
June 16 - British submarine HMS Grampus is sunk by Italian destroyers.
June 23 - British destroyer HMS Khartoum is sunk off Eritrea by Italian smg. (submarine) Torricelli.
July 4 - The start of a series of first moves by Italy that led to humiliating defeats of the British. Lt. Gen Guglielmo Nasi struck westward from Ethiopia into Sudan. They capture several border towns and arrive within 300 miles of Khartoum. Within 6 weeks, Nasi conquered British Somaliland, causing the British to evacuate from the Sea at Berbera.
July 8 - Regia Aeronautica bombers bomb the British cruiser HMS Gloucester. Scoring a direct hit and killing her captain and 17 crewmen. Gloucester survives, but with a crippled steering gear.
July 11 - British destroyer HMS Escort is sunk off Gibraltar by Italian submarine smg. Marconi.
August 1 - Italian destroyer Ugolino Vivaldi sinks British submarine HMS Oswald off Cape Spartivento
August 3 - British Somaliland surrenders to Italy.
November 6 - The British mount their counteroffensive in the Sudan town of Gallabat. 7,000 troops under the command of Sir William Slim storm Gallabat with tank and infantry. Without air cover, he was unable to achieve his goals. The Italian Air Force shot down 5 gladiators and bombed his troops, killing 42 and wounding 125. The attack on Italian forces ended with a British withdrawal.
December 18 - British submarine HMS Triton is sunk in the Adriatic by Italian torpedo boats
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1941
January 7 - Italian torpedo boat Clio sinks Free French submarine Narval off the coast of Tobruk, Libya.
January 24 - Considered the first real "armored clash" is spawned at Mechili. The Italian Special Armored Brigade destroys 15 British tanks and pursue the the British for an additional 20 kilometers before losing communication with the home base and turning back. They then destroy another 6 tanks from a British counterattack. O'Connor orders a two week halt to bring in fresh supplies after his 70 cruisers are reduced to 50, and 120 light tanks reduced to 95. He considers this force to small to attack the 57 M13/40's and 25 L3/35's of the Italian Brigade.
February 3 - The British attack Keren with a force of 30,000 against 23,000 Italians made up of 3 Brigades of Colonial Levies and 3 Brigades of Savoia Grenadiers. After attacks and counterattacks, the Italians were able to push the Indian Infantry Brigade back. Then the Scottish attacked and were also repelled by the Italians.
March 31 - British cruiser HMS Bonaventure is sunk off Crete by Italian submarine smg. Ambra.
May 1 - British submarine HMS Usk is sunk off the coast of Sicily by Italian destroyers
May 13 - Italian torpedo boat Pleiadi sinks British submarine HMS Undaunted off the coast of Tripoli, Libya.
May 15 - British forces receive forewarning of a possible threat by Italian forces when action in Colonel O'Connor's Squadron C of 4 RTR lose 7 out of 10 Matilda tanks by Italian 47/32 guns. Axis casualties include 592 Italians and 685 Germans.
May 27 -28 - The British are ordered to evacuate Crete. In the 3 day battle of the seas, the Italo-German forces were able to sink 2 cruisers, 4 destroyers and one battleship. Two cruisers and 4 destroyers were damaged severely. During this battle, the Decima Flottiglia Mas maneuvered six Explosive Motor Boat (EMB) through the mines and antipersonnel nets of Suda Bay and sunk the British cruiser HMS York, two tankers and a steamer.
July 30 - Italian torpedo boat Achille Papa sinks British submarine HMS Cachalot off Malta.
September 20 - The Decima Flottiglia Mas is able to complete its second attempt at attacking ships ported in Gibraltar. Human Torpedoes successfully sink 2 tankers Fiona Shell and Denby Dale and the British H.M.S. Durban. The pilots and divers successfully escape by swimming to Spanish shores.
November 19 - British attack Axis forces at Bir El Gobi. Ariete's 146 M13/40's take the brunt of the attack and stop the British advance. The Ariete deploy in three battalion sized formations with twenty four 75/27's, thirty 47/32's, twelve 105/28's and seven 102/35's. The Ariete with 73 guns and 137 tanks, engaged the 28 pdrs. and 158 Crusaders of the XXII Armoured Brigade of the British. The XXII lose 55 tanks at Bir El Gobi and spend the next two days in the Allied rear regrouping. The 21st Panzer also managed to destroy 23 of the IV Armoured Brigades tanks. Over the next few days, the Ariete attack the XXII and IV Armoured Brigade and by November 23, the Ariete, Trieste and Savona account for more than 200 British tanks destroyed along with roughly 200 British vehicles. The Bologna, Trento and Pavia Divisions contained Tobruk. Because of the independent actions of the Italian and German subordinate, Rommel was saved from disaster.
December 4 -7 - Another successful engagement by Italian forces in Bir El Gobi, when the battalion of Giovanni Fascisti maul the XI Indian Brigade, destroying 100 tanks. Norrie's troops, who had an overwhelming advantage in every area, failed to concentrate their actions against the Italians causing one arm of the Italian battalion, the "Giovanni Fascisti" to block the actions of his corps and inflicted heavy casualties on one of his brigade The Giovanni Fascisti engaged the British army corps for 4 days and severely damaging the IV Armoured Brigade. The IV Armoured Brigade had to retreat 20 miles in order to reorganize. This forced Ritchie to abandon his intent to attack Rommels southern flank and trap his forces in Gabr Saleh.
December 5 - Rommel orders a general retreat and "forgets" to notify the Trieste and Ariete Division, forcing them to fight through the British Commonwealth IV Armoured Brigade and the 7th Support Group to rejoin the retreating German forces. Rommels hasty retreat cost the Italian Ariete and Trieste Divisions greatly, however, their determination to fight through the surrounding British gave the Ariete and not DAK, the first major tank battle of North Africa and accounted for another 100 British Commonwealth armored vehicle losses at Alam Hamza.
December 18 - Force K, the British Flotilla assigned to protect Malta and its shipping, hits an Italian moored minefield 20 miles east of Tripoli. The cruiser HMS Neptune and destroyer HMS Kandahar are sunk, the cruiser HMS Aurora is badly damaged and the cruiser HMS Penelope is slightly damaged. The site of the stricken ships limping back to the Grand Harbour brought a sense of fear into the Maltese people, who depend on the protected convoys to survive.
December 19 - The H.M.S. Valiant and H.M.S.Queen Elizabeth, while moored in the port of Alexandria, are critically damaged by explosions under their keels planted by Human Torpedo's operated by Italian frogmen of the Decima Flottiglia MAS. The damage was so great that these two ships were deemed unseaworthy. Along with the Battleships, the tanker Sagona and the British Destroyer Jervis were also severely damaged. Two Italian frogmen are captured, Lt. Luigi Durand de la Penne and Lt Bianchi. They refused to divulge any information until moments before the explosion (because they were being interrogated right above the area of the keel where the explosion was to occur). This attack, which neutralized the ability of the British to oppose the Italian Regia Marina with its battleships, allowed deeply needed convoys to supply Axis forces in Africa.
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1942
January 23 - Italian intelligence begin giving Rommel daily British Order of Battle. Italians give the Marcks Group more power by presenting the self propelled Semovente 75/18.
February 6 - The British are pushed back to Gazala. The British Commonwealth forces lose 40 tanks, 40 field guns and 1,400 troops. This was a disaster for the Allies in more ways than one. Now the Allied convoys to Malta must pass between Axis occupied Crete and Axis airfields in Benghazi.
February 13 - Italian torpedo boat Circe sinks British submarine HMS Tempest off Taranto.
February 25 - British submarine P38 is sunk off the coast of Tunisia by Italian destroyers.
SECOND BATTLE OF SIRTE
March 22 - Admiral Iachino sets sail in his flagship, the Vittorio Veneto, along with 2 heavy cruisers, the Gorizia and Trento, light cruiser Bande Nere and four destroyers to intercept a convoy. The convoy were protected by 3 fast frigates, along with the Clan Campbell, the Pampas the Norwegian Talabot, the Breconshire , the Carlisle and 6 destroyers were then joined by the Penelope and the destroyer Legion.
At 9:30 A.M., Italian torpedo bombers began the attack on the convoy and it's escorts, causing no damage. The Luftwaffe then appeared and again no damage to the convoy. At 1:30 P.M., most of the Italian and Allied ships made sight of each other. The Allied fleet immediately began making smoke to prevent accurate range finding by the Italian vessels. The Italian heavy cruisers opened fire and began to turn away once the Carlisle and a destroyer began to fire back. The British assumed they were retreating. It was, however, a trick to attempt to get the Allied ships within range of the still unseen Battleship Littorio's 15" guns. The Allies did not fall for it.
At 4:30 P.M., the opposing fleets again made sight of each other. The Euryalus and the Cleopatra were both peppered by Italian shells. The winds began to increase to gail force strength and coupled with the smoke screen, it became difficult for the Italian ships to get into position to fire. Once the Vittorio Veneto found a clearing, it badly damaged two Allied destroyers (one had reduced speed, the other temporary crippled in the water). With the worsening of conditions, and slight damage to the Vittorio Veneto, Admiral Iachino disengaged the attack.
MARETH
March - Italian forces inflict heavy loses on British 56th division.
April 14 - The most respected British submarine HMS Upholder is sunk by Italian Torpedo Boat Pegaso off the coast of Tripoli, Libya.
April 28 - British submarine HMS Urge is sunk by Italian Torpedo Boat Pegaso off the coast of Libya
ENFIDAVILLE
April 29 - Italian forces inflict considerable losses on the British 56th Division as soon as it reached the battlefield.
May 26 - Trieste makes its way through British minefields and the Ariete destroy the III Indian Motor Brigade and hold the IV Armoured Brigade because the German 90th Light proved to weak to both attack and guard the Axis flank.
26 May to 21 June - One of the high points of Rommel's African military tactics in which Auchinleck and Ritchie could not take advantage of the situation and as a result, the British 8th army was beat back.
May 31 - Italian guns inflict heavy losses on the British near Sidra Ridge. The Ariete pound the II and XXII Armoured Brigade. Bastico reports "The Italian XX Corps fought well, the DAK, not so well. The 90th Light was in retreat."
June 1 - Rommels Axis forces break through the Gazala line, destroying 100 British tanks and taking 3,000 British POW's.
June 5 - 6 - British Commonwealth forces mount a major counteroffensive code named "Aberdeen". The Italian X Corps holds them up in the North and the Trieste and 90th Light contain the French at Bir Hacheim. The Ariete joins the 15th and 21st Panzer to battle the 42nd and 7th Royal Tank Regiments, including the II, IV and XXII Armoured, IX and X Indian and the CCI Guards brigades. The Ariete and Italian artillery repulse the British at Sidra and Aslagh ridges.
June 11 - Bir Hacheim falls to an attack by the Trieste and the 12th Ariete pepper the XXII Armoured and CCI Guard brigades. After a decisive victory, the Ariete attack the IV Armoured Brigade with the 21st Panzer.
June 14 - The Regia Marina sends the Italian 7th cruiser division (cruisers, submarines and torpedo bombers) under Admiral da Zara in the flagship Eugenio di Savoia from Palermo, Sicily to intercept. In the following battle the Regia Marina's direct attack sank the British destroyer Bedouin and forced an altered and delaying route on the British, allowing the Axis air forces to reduce the convoy from 6 to 2 transports. Only 2 merchant ships, the Orari and Troilus, along with the Welshman, were able to make it to Malta.
Mid June - Operation Vigorous, which included 11 merchant ships, seven cruisers and 28 destroyers was the largest convoy to set sail for Malta. The convoy had to turn back around and return home to Alexandria, Egypt once it was noted that the Italian Battleships Littorio and Vittorio Veneto, along with 2 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers and 12 destroyers were dispatched to intercept them.
Total Allied damage included 8 merchant ships sunk, 3 damaged, 5 cruisers damaged, 4 destroyers sunk, 1 destroyer damaged, 2 corvettes damaged and one torpedo boat sunk. Only 1 Italian heavy cruiser was lost, scuttled by the Italians due to severe damage.
These two operations were major Italian naval victories, but the downfall was that the oil shortages became so great for the Italian military machine, that such large Italian naval operations were rarely seen again.
June 20 - The Africa Corp and Italian XX Corp begin pounding Tobruk, eventually resorting to hand to hand combat with the British who are under the command of Klopper. Italian Caproni's, German Junkers 88's and Stukas bomb Tobruk to mercy. See Battle Map..
June 21 - Klopper surrenders Tobruk to the Afrika Korps. The spoils include 33,000 POW's, roughly 2,000 vehicles, 30 tanks, 400 guns and much needed fuel. Italian destroyer Strale runs aground off Tunisia and is scuttled. Rommel pursuades Hitler to approve and advance to Egypt. Cavallero, Kesselring and Mussolini do not agree with his actions.
July 22 - Trento, Brescia and Ariete capture 1,400 British POW's and destroy 146 tanks in a unsuccessful British strike.
July 27 - The Axis supply crisis ends and the Trento artillery destroy 27 tanks, 30 vehicles and capture 1,000 POW's during an Axis counterattack after the 9th Australian and I Armoured Brigades overran the Trento 61st Battalion and the German 361st Regiment. The British are now just as exhausted and the Italian XX Corps maul the New Zealanders, thanks mostly to Italian artillery and mines which destroy 86 of the XXII Armoured Brigade's 97 Valentines and 120 New Zealand anti-tank guns.
End of July - The British try to break through the Folgore Parachute Division at Deir el Munassib, but Folgore's strong defense repell the attack and cause the British substantial losses in men and vehicles.
August 6 - Italian Torpedo Boat Pegaso sinks British submarine HMS Thorn off Tobruk, Libya. (Note: Pegaso sinks 3 British submarines in 4 months.)
December 25 - Italian Torpedo Boat Ardente sinks British submarine P48 off the coast of Tunisia.
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1943
April 28 - Italian Torpedo Boat Sagittario sinks British MTB 639 off the coast of Sicily.
April 29 - Considerable losses inflicted on the British 56th Division by Italian forces in Enfidaville.
July 17 - Italian cruiser Scipione Africano sinks British MTB 316 off Messina.

 

By the battle of El Alamein seven out of the eleven divisions were British. The other four divisions were I believe the 4th Indian, 9th Australian, the New Zealanders and the 1st South Africans. Before 1942 there was more of a parity between the numbers of British and Commonwealth troops in the theatre, mainly due to the fact that Britain was threatened with invasion and large numbers of British divisions were stationed in the UK.

I do think the Italians get a bad press regarding their performance in WW2. Some of their elite units performed very well during the North African campaign, especially in Tunisia. But if you look at the Italian forces arrayed against the British in North Africa in 1940 they outnumbered the British forces by something like 5:1 (I know prior to Operation Compass Wavell had 30,000 British and Commonwealth troops facing 150,000 Italians) but they were simply outfought. In East Africa the Italians also had superiority in numbers but suffered defeat there as well.

 

You may want to check out the other threads that Truthie felt the need to comment on. He came here with a chip on his shoulder.

http://www.ww2f.com/north-africa-mediterranean/22728-italians-wwii.html

http://www.ww2f.com/north-africa-mediterranean/22230-italians-allies.html

http://www.ww2f.com/north-africa-mediterranean/25649-italian-navy-during-world-war-ii.html

 

Yes it seems to be the case. Hasn't the list of Italian victories been recycled for several different threads?

 

Yeah. I for one have tried to post information that portrays the Italians in a more positive light. He chose to ignore that and posted here with the preconcieved notion that we are all Italy bashers LOL. And yes he did start repeating himself. That was the best he could do. And of course was corrected LOL.

 

What was that he said about supporting his claims with evidence? Oh yeah, "my info is so true, it don't need support". LOL. I feel, IMO, the main reason the Italians get a bad rap is because of the illconcieved and disastrous war with Greece.

 

That is one of the reasons I think also. I think that the "support" that Hitler had to provide was another factor. That the Italians couldn't make it on thier own with out thier help.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but I always believed the Matilda was British?

You fail to overlook that in 1940 the British and Commonwealth forces beat back an Italian army twice their size. But you don't want to know that so why should we tell you?