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British wwii IFF

Discussion in 'Allied Aviation Of WWII' started by Prospero Quevedo, Aug 8, 2021.

  1. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    was reading on the spits and hurricanes. Was trying to find out what two prop was on the early mark 1s. Was the two prop on the spit and the hurricane mk1s the same? Anyway while reading about the props I read that the British had a type of transmitter that sent a signal that was picked up by the early radar 1940. That's pretty interesting they had such already back then. Did other countries do some thing similar?
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    No, the Hurricane's was slightly over 11-feet, while the Spitfire's was slightly over 10-feet.
     
  3. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    Thanks for the info, sweet made a great model of the mk 1 hurricane with the fabric wings and included a two and three prop. Maybe I can whittle down a two prop for my spit. I think I have some with the early canopy, that should be good. It's interesting how the hurricane was still built based on wwi aircraft design the tubular framework and the fabric skin on the fuselage half. The wings in the beginning then going to metal skin later. Was reading they had as many as eight 303 guns in each wing wow I knew they had up,to six but didn't know had as many as eight. I was also surprised to learn they were copies of the browning 30 cal chambered for the 303. Said they had bought samples of many guns and tested them extensively and found the browning the most reliable. I think I read the 303 was a inexpensive round as it didn't use expensive flash powder but a inexpensive type of explosive charge like the type used in naval gun charges. I guess if it works and saves money that a win win. Again that's for your time and info.
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I read the problem with 303' s is that they were not powerful enough to drop the German bombers. Many German planes had the plane full of holes but they still could return home.
     
  5. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    The RAF did not use IFF during the Battle of Britain. IFF is based on radar reflections, which was not that useful as there was no radar coverage inland. The system in use that provided IFF was called Pip Squeak, and was an important part of the Dowding air defence system.

    Pip-Squeak was a Direction Finding broadcast on the aircraft's radio, but on a different channel to voice communications. This was broadcast once very X seconds and the location of the aircraft established by direction finding. Besides helping lost aircraft this was key to directing intercepting fighters to inbound raids. Raid plots based on radar and observer corps could tell the controller where the bombers were, but the controller also needed to know the exact location of each of the sector's own fighter squadrons. Otherwise how could they know what direction to tell the fighters to fly. This is the important thing carried out by RAF Sector control and a weak link that the Luftwaffe failed to exploit. IRRC only three formations could use the same pip squeak, which is why RAF sectors only controlled a maximum of three formations. (squadrons or pairs of squadrons)

    Lots more here Pip-squeak - Wikipedia
     
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  6. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    Yeah that's why they had so many like twelve to sixteen of those things will do enough damage to do something. The mk2s with the 20mm really packed some punch wonder if they use the ones with the 40mm for bomber busting. I wonder why they never tried using the 50 cal on them. I read they didn't like the weight and the reduced ammo but early on the 303 was getting less effective I guess they just loved them because they were inexpensive to make and they were cranking out 303 like crazy.
    thanks for the info I just thought it was interesting they had such a thing back in 1940. Thought the IFF was a modern mid generation jet age thing. The Brits have been at the beginning of a lot of modern military concepts. It took the British a long time to work out the best construction of a carrier it's amazing to read about the very early carrier pilots who risked their lives and died trying to prove the concept which allowed us to continue engineering to build the carriers we have today. I think it's interesting how the Chinese keep boasting they will build a carrier that will surpass us. So far they haven't butt the ships do keep getting bigger. I think part of the problem is they are not yet carrier operation experience enough yet I read more than half of the original carrier pilots were killed or washed out and the survivors are now the new generation instructors. Maybe if they actually build up their carrier squadrons they'll actually make good their boast but having a bunch of carriers with inexperienced pilots just seems useless. On the other hand we have a history of great carrier pilots back to the Second World War. I still find it odd that most of the carrier planes are all F18s these days. The F35 is getting off the lines but heard their still having a lot of teething problems like any new aircraft hell the F18 had lots of problems in the beginning as well reinforce framing new landing gear took a long time to get it where it is today. Again that's for the info
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Only because the Chinese are new to the game. All other carrier nations did this with props in the 20s & 30s, and again with the early jets in the 50s & 60s. The USN went through a particularly rough patch with the early jets, but, with a concentrated effort, overcame their problems. See...
    Six amazing years: RAGs, NATOPS, and more. - Free Online Library

    The Chinese are going through their rough patch, but will surmount their problems. The next 20 - 30 years should be particularly interesting.
     
  8. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    Yeah I figure if they keep at it they'll get it down as well. I think once they get there they escalate their seized of open water ways. Don't understand way they are trying to control so much of the ocean. Is so they can freely fish out the ocean like their fishing most places to where there becoming just empty dead open water. I mean I know they have a lot of mouths to feed but if you kill off the fishing where are you going to go next. Hell I read the US coast guard seized 300 Chinese fishing boats last year and their cargo then sank there ships. Other nations have been doing the same. Surprised the Chinese haven't used that as an excuse for some kind of retaliation. Anyway once they get their carrier ops to full I really think they'll get more aggressive on the sea ways.
     
  9. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    The history of the first carrier landing is insane but it made the British think that there early ships were not the way and they really put engineering effort into the first true carriers. I had always thought the Zeppelin aerodrome raid was by biplanes off a carrier but learned it was by sea planes from a number of sea plane tenders, and the Japanese conducted a air raid using a seaplane tender with sea planes like wow what shabby looking planes way back then.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    1. Power - they need to justify the large amount of money they are spending on modernizing their military.
    2. They are putting air & missile bases on these islandsn extending their useful ranges. They also serve as advanced warning networks. Finally, the could be used to attack other nations if need be.

    The Chinese are fishing the "next"...Large Chineze fishing fleets are operating off Argentina and around the Galapagos Islands. When operating illegally, they turn off their AIS, making them undetectable electronically(unless a radar equipped warship is in the area - this is called "Going dark.") Some have been caught and a few sunk, but most get away Scott free, because the navies there lack ships to do 24/7 enforcement.

    If you believe that, I need to sell this bridge in Brooklyn that I own - we me an offer, willing to sell cheap.

    Only one new source(that I never heard of) has had that a story, based on a YouTube video. Accompanied with a worrisome disclaimer that the story may not be truthful as they have not established the veracity of the video. It's as honest as a 3 dollar bill.

    Probably because it never happened. Closest was the US acussing China of illegally fishing a fleet of about 300 boats near one of our Pacific territories in 2018.
     
  11. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    The British basically skipped over the .50 (0.5" as they would call it) for fighter armament and went straight to the 20mm. Some Spitfire models had two 20mm and two 0.5s, not a bad combination IMO. The US was unusual in making the .50 its principal fighter weapon.

    AFAIK twelve .303s was the most used in a fighter, the Hurricane IIB and the early Typhoons. Both then jumped to four 20mm.
     

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