Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Brownshirts in Sound of Music?

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by UncleJoe, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Does anyone know what organization Rolfe joins in The Sound of Music (1965)? I'm tempted to think the SA (brownshirts), but wouldn't that be historically inaccurate since the SA was purged in 1934?
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9,102
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Historical accuracy in a Hollywood film????

    Given the many "historical" liberties the film takes, why would you think this one, very minor bit, would be based on historical fact?

    Likely, it is just showing that Rolfe has joined the "big bad Nazis"...
     
  3. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    502
    The SA still existed after 1934, indeed until 1945, although it declined precipitously in numbers and influence. After Hitler abrogated the Versailles restrictions, expansion of the regular army (as well as the SS) absorbed many SA members or potential recruits.

    There were home-grown Nazi or similar movements in many countries, indeed the Austrians were ahead of the Germans; from wikipedia:

    "At a party congress in Vienna in May 1918, the DAP [Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, established as early as 1903] changed its name to the Deutsche Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei (DNSAP) and produced a National Socialist Program which is thought to have influenced the later German Nazi manifesto."

    Note the similarity in name and acronym to the NSDAP. While Hollywood is not always historically accurate (!), Rolfe could have belonged to an Austrian Nazi paramilitary organization.
     
  4. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    153
    ....remembering that there's an unspecified amount of time between the Anschluss and the Captain's being called up for military service again ;)
     
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,109
    Likes Received:
    2,314
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,206
    Likes Received:
    1,812
    Location:
    Perfidious Albion
    The Sound of Music is an unimpeachable historical record.
    I'll brook no argument on this point - whatever they say happened, happened.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Looks pretty brown-shirty to me, though maybe more Deutsche Jugend-y in the second shot.
    Carronade's right that the organisation limped on until war's end, so we can only conclude that Rolfe was either deeply unfashionable, or liked to buck the trend.

    The bastard... fancy letting that girl down after singing Going on 17...

    Everybody sing along now.
    [video=youtube;YL27-VldopA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL27-VldopA&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    ~A
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    12,109
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    The von Trapps thought it extremely funny that the eldest daughter would have been dancing in the garden with a boy.
     
  8. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA

    I think it does make a difference because the SA was the more progressive and less evil part of the party. They were the ones who put the socialism in National Socialism. Hitler only tolerated socialism as far as it advanced nationalism.


    I didn't think of that. Yeah, that sounds likely. Any specific groups in mind?


    I suppose he could have joined the SS, but if they showed him in a black
    Allgemeine SS uniform, the movie wouldn't be very kid friendly.


     
  9. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    502
    Rolfe could have belonged to an Austrian Nazi paramilitary organization
    I didn't think of that. Yeah, that sounds likely. Any specific groups in mind?

    I don't know that much about it, but it seems likely that the Austrian DNSAP might have an equivalent of the SA or the Hitlerjugend (which a German 17-going-on-18-year-old would usually be in). Especially after Hitler came to power, Austrian Nazis largely emulated their German counterparts, and most of them transitioned smoothly into the NSDAP after the Anschluss.

    I suppose he could have joined the SS, but if they showed him in a black Allgemeine SS uniform, the movie wouldn't be very kid friendly.

    Perhaps they intended to portray Rolfe as a basically decent kid who got caught up in the "new thing"; for example his hesitation to raise the alarm when he catches the von Trapps escaping.

    More prosaically, at his age he would probably still have been in the Hitler Youth equivalent.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9,102
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Yeah, until you notice that the button/insignia on his cap in the second shot has the colors of the Austrian flag(red-white-red).
     
  11. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm proud to say I've never seen The Sound of Music. With luck, I'll go to my grave with the same condition. I have no insight or things to say about which organization Rolf joined, nor do I care.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen O

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,549
    Likes Received:
    605
    The second photo of Mr Poop's , shows Rolf as an Austrian postie.
    He delievers letter in the film before he joins the nasty-nazis
     
  13. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Well if he joined the SA instead of the (SS or Hitlerjugend), then I wouldn't think he's that bad. That's one of the main reasons why I was curious about this question. The SA definitely seemed more benign than the rest of the NSDAP. Like I said, they were the ones who put socialism in National Socialism. I also like to think they did not share Hitler's racial agenda. It's just sad the moderates always get replaced by the extremists in a revolution
    (e.g. Mensheviks => Bolsheviks,
    Girondins => Jacobins).


    I wonder if WW2 would've even happened if the SA got their way and threw out Hitler instead. Would make a very interesting alternative fiction. I should send this idea to Harry Turtledove.
     
  14. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    6,858
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    I wish I was as lucky as Lou. I'll admit I was only half paying attention (reading ww2f at the same time), when the wife had it on. She met the youngest Van Trapp daughter back in the 60's and thus, (we?) watch each year. I am delighted to see that other esteemed members of this site have also been strapped to their recliners to see it. The scenery of the mountains is nice and Julie Andrews wasn't too hard on the eyes 45+ years ago. Especially after falling out of a boat into cold water.
    Now if I could only forget; "The Hills Are Alive With the ............
     
  15. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Fortunately, my wife feels the same as I do about the movie. I have not been strapped into my recliner to watch it. I'll watch Julie Andrews in anything but that.
     
  16. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,720
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Popping is head above the barricade..."i think sound of music is a movie classic". Ducking quickly back down as the incoming strikes.
     
    belasar, Owen and von Poop like this.
  17. Owen

    Owen O

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,549
    Likes Received:
    605
    I don't mind admiting to liking the film, used to be a family favourite , something for the whole family to watch.
    Even better driving through the Alps playing the soundtrack on the car stereo.
     
  18. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    502
    Good catch, Wyvern!

    It's sort of an optical illusion - Rolf is wearing a brown shirt, necktie, leather crossbelt (presumably holding his letter carrier bag), there's a swastika flag in the background, and we all know what happens later in the movie, so we think he looks Nazi-ish even though he's not at that point.
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,206
    Likes Received:
    1,812
    Location:
    Perfidious Albion
    And I used to think you were a cultured man, Lou...
     
  20. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    No culture here, Adam. The movie is too schmaltzy for me. I hope never to be subjected to it.
     

Share This Page