Captain Richard Winters

Thought Damian Lewis played the part well in 'Band of Brothers' good series and I'd take my hat off to all the Allied Troops in WWII

 

Only if it's a tremendous success...

 

Thank you for reporting a one MOH limit for each division landed at Normandy on D-Day. Surely, LCOL. Cole (101st) deserved his MOH for the bayonet charge during D-Day, but it was nonetheless mindless to effect the one MOH per division criteria at Normandy. I say "mindless" when you consider that the two Japanese/American divisions in WWII received retroactively a total of 22 MOH to make it "right" relative to the possibility of previous discrimination. When you consider the one MOH per division at Normandy did 22 Japanese (including Sen. Inouye) Americans from their divisions deserve the MOH ? Highly doubtful !!! But politicians, led by the self-serving Senator from Hawaii had to make it "right". Capt. Richard Winters (101st) to receive a MOH is absolutely easily defended. Instead of watching a movie (Band of Brothers) to justify the award just do some research. Winters' heroism is well documented. The humble Winters had the MOH downgraded to a DSC, a travesty. Who is being discriminated against here ?

 

There were no complete Japanese-American divisions in the US Army. There was an independent infantry regiment (the 442nd) which absorbed an independent infantry battalion (100th). Other Nisei served as individuals, often as scouts or interpreters in the Pacific theater and CBI.

 

There was no such "limitation" on the issue of the Medal of Honor on D-Day. Stephen Ambrose, as usual without evidence, claimed that Maxwell Taylor placed such a "limitation" on the 101st.

 

I'm also a huge fan of Major Winters. I was surfing the Net some time back and found this good article on him. Below are a couple of portions regarding his physical fitness philosophy. After describing his workout habits..

"Winters kept up the exercise habit after Easy Company deployed for combat missions, finding it invaluable in mitigating the stress that accumulated from having to regularly make life and death decisions. He committed himself to a rigorous routine, in which “there were only a few days that I didn’t run two to three miles, do eighty push-ups, sixty sit-ups on a foot locker, a couple of splits, and some leg and trunk exercises after the day’s work was over.”

and

“Because I was in such good shape, my fatigue level never reached the point of physical exhaustion that contributes to mental exhaustion and, ultimately, to combat fatigue. We all experienced sleep deprivation at times—that is the nature of stress—but a physically exhausted leader routinely makes poor decisions in times of crisis.”

Link:

Life Advice From Major Dick Winters | The Art of Manliness

James

 

Thank you for the correction. Divisions are composed of regiments, etc. The 442nd regiment was almost exclusively nisei. And while a regiment is a lesser # than a division the Japanese/American heroes relatively speaking received considerably even more than the limit at Normandy of 1 MOH per division. The point is !! The arbitrary limit was ridiculous, and if one's heroism was worthy of the MOH that one should have received the MOH. Inequity in awards has always been a real problem, and of course "inequity" is in the eyes of the beholder. Richard Winters' performance was worthy of the MOH--period ! It was only because of "Bradley-esque" bureaucratic nonsense that he did not receive the MOH. Richard Winters, incidentally, would be the last to participate in this discussion. If one does not appreciate "inequity in awards" all one needs to consider is that Douglas MacArthur received the MOH for "action" in WWII. My comments were not made to disparage the heroism of the nisei. Rather, the comments were made to qualify the injustice to Captain Richard Winters. Everyone who spends time reading of war in Europe knows of Captain Richard Winters.

 

Interesting that you seem to be saying "definitively" that the 1 MOH/division limit did not exist. You may be right, but of course you may be wrong. In any case, relatively speaking in my eyes Captain Richard Winters deserved the MOH. If racial discrimination could be construed to be the reason for the downgrade to a DSC Richard Winters would posthumously be "wearing" the MOH today. Of course he was not a minority. So, why did he not receive the MOH ? Probably because Stephen Ambrose, albeit occasionally "misinformed", was correct. In Vietnam I received a very event specific combat award. Did I deserve it, absolutely not ! Why did I receive it; because the more senior officer was "going in" for the next higher award, and therefore the more junior officer (myself) "deserved" an award to logically justify his higher award. Guess what, we both got the same award, and the lesser of the two awards. I thought it was hilarious. It did not work for him, but it "did" for me. Incidentally, the more senior officer was a great warrior, fearless, and a wonderful guy. This thread is meant to be positive on behalf of Captain Richard Winters. One might find "reasons" to alter the discussion into attempting to top one over another. My impression is that the WWII forum is typically inhabited by those with a passion for WWII history, thoughtful insight, and relevant perspective.

 

It is not true. At least two members of the 1st Infantry Division were recipients of the CMOH for actions in Normandy.

Dick Winters was a brave man but not every action was written up.

 

And I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but many here would have never heard of MAJ Winters or his deeds had not Ambrose wrote a book that was made into a TV miniseries which blossomed into internet chatter.

I can think of a bunch of folks who should have received a Medal of Honor when measured against some of those who did, but they never had a pop-history or a miniseries, so they'll have to settle for their Navy Cross(es). I'm sorry, but all this stuff about how whomever should have their awards upgraded is, frankly, extremely unseemly.

One of those life lessons . . . I can remember being about five or six years old and asking my father about his medals. When I pointed, he said, "that's a Navy Cross." I asked what the star meant and he informed me that it meant he was awarded it twice. Somehow in the conversation I picked up on the Navy Cross being one step down the ladder from the Medal of Honor and I remember asking along the lines of, "well, if you have two, can you trade them in for a Medal of Honor?" The reply was a very stern "That is not the way it works." Please note that I am not in any way, shape, or form saying, or even intimating, my father is one of those who should have his awards upgraded; not on freaking your life. He knew what he had done, and I have a pretty good idea what he had done, that resulted in his Navy Cross decorations and they are more than quite sufficient.

Those who might describe themselves as "fans" of thus and so officer (which strikes me as a little odd, these are not football players or movie stars) and complain about the insufficiency of awards . . . eeeeh, I sorry, I can't go with that.

 

Never said Captain Winters' DSC should be "upgraded". What I suggested is the write up for the MOH should not have been downgraded. I fell for the Ambrose comment that there was a "limit" precluding the MOH for Winters. I bought it; I was wrong, and of course so was Ambrose. I guess I could stop reading and watch movies. I won't do that. I suppose Ambrose was also misled. Regarding R Leonard and his father's NCs. It is clear that your father's heroism became a habit. It is not likely that it just happened. With 2 NCs your Dad was genetically an exception. I hope he always received the respect he deserved. I must admit I would like to see Winters receive the MOH I personally think he deserves. A basic axiom in the awards process is that it is important to be respectful of precedence. It is very very hard to do. How do you compare the heroism displayed on the ground to heroism in the air or at sea ? It is important to try to be consistent otherwise it is well understood in the military that by inflating performance to enhance career potential you devalue the award, and the process. Does that happen; only someone who has not worn the uniform would say it does not. It happens all the time. It has happened to me, and to my benefit. In my case I did not ask for it; it just happened. On the other hand on one occasion an O-6 pinned a Commendation Medal on my chest when it should have clearly been an MSM. That was OK because later I received an MSM which I did not deserve. In my case it averaged out. Thanks for your comments. Fortunately, we can all look at heroism and the awards process as we see fit. It may not conform to someone else's impressions but that is why we put on the uniform. That is to say, we put it on to protect one's right to see it as they see fit. In this forum I believe most of us are respectful advocates of that right. You will not see me again in this forum. It can get too contentious, and emotional when it is not intended to be. You will notice that I do not have a participation history of any consequence, so now I will just "fade away". Cheers !