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Captured p40 in german insignia?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HomerS, May 12, 2022.

  1. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Im an avid rc pilot and building a big 94" wingspan p40 and looking for some info on paint. Im not much for the shark mouth, its too popular so want something different. I found this picture online, really like it but i cant find any documentation on any p40 that was captured and repainted. I read that the p40 in the picture was made for a movie, but also know the p40 fought on the European front. Maybe its a long shot and will have to do US olive drab or something. But figured maybe someone here had some info on captured and repainted planes. Thanks in advance
     

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  2. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    My sons are RC enthusiasts as well, so I'm interested in your topic. Thanks for posting. An almost 8' wingspan is big, is it electric powered or an internal combustion engine? That works out to close to 1/5 scale I believe. I'm really amazed at those Moki radial engines found in some of the larger aircraft.



    Alas, I can't answer your question as to German use of captured P-40's (I really like the paint scheme), I can tell you there were some used operationally by the japanese.

    Here: Captured P-40 (j-aircraft.com)
     
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  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Photoshopped P-40N. Look close and you can see the discoloration around the airframe.

    Better of going with a Finnish P-40 or a Japanese one if you are looking for unique.
     
  4. ltdan

    ltdan Active Member

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    Airworthy captured aircraft were grouped in the "Circus Rosarius", P-40s were definitely not among them.
    Nazi Germany only had the P-36, which had been captured in France.
    P-40s with Finnish, Japanese and Chinese markings are, however, well documented.
     
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  5. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Thanks, i am going with an 85cc gasoline engine, yes its actually like 1/4.5 scale or something like that. Im building it from ziroli plans. Those mokis are super impressive, my dad has a couple, lots of maintenance though. Have to adjust valves constantly and oil them as well just like the big ones. I cant afford the 4000 dollar price tag on one so i stick to the gassers lol. I would like to do a big p38 or p61 and hate to say, id probably go electric on that just for reliability reasons. Hard to get gas engines to tune close together, but a twin sounds REALLY nice.
    Photoshopped P-40N. Look close and you can see the discoloration around the airframe.

    Better of going with a Finnish P-40 or a Japanese one if you are looking for unique.
    I was looking at pics of the finnish as well. That one is a different variant as well, they had the M variant and im doing the E variant. Might look at japanese, last on the list kinda lol. Thanks for input
     
  6. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Thank you, going to read up on that, i had no idea.
     
  7. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    So i googled that came came up with this site.

    Zirkus Rosarius
    There was a p40 but it doesn't identify the variant. Did find this one the other day but i cant find anything really on it either and i believe thats an f as it doesn't have the air scoop on nose
     

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  8. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Found this book, itll be at the house in a couple days lol. Should be some good info and a good read hopefully
     

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  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Find info. We got one P-40M through forced landing from the Russians. Unfortunately it was scrapped and the metal sold in 1950.
     
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  10. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Yeah that was the mkiii that was in that website i found. Thats too bad it was scrapped. Im actually learning a lot by doing this lol.
     
  11. ltdan

    ltdan Active Member

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    I know the photo shown from the 57th FG website. I assume that the photo was taken in North Africa.
    57th_FG

    The P-40 given for the Circus Rosarius is a complete mystery. It starts with the totally irregular designation 10+KH, because the circus had T9+**.
    The aircraft can't be from KG 200 either, because they only flew the big ones.
    The remaining one is the Rechlin testing station, but here too the designation does not fit.
    The only P-40 with KH markings was the KH-51, which was captured by the Finns.

    My hint, if you want to build an exotic, maybe try the P-40s, which were flown by the Dutch in the Dutch East Indies.
    P-40N in the Netherlands Indies
     
  12. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Ok you lost me at the 10+KH and the T9+**. Ive seen those numbers before, what do they mean??
     
  13. ltdan

    ltdan Active Member

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    T9+** is the identification prefix of the "Zirkus Rosarius" (2nd Squadron, Versuchsverband Ob.d.L), for example T9+MK for the P-38.

    Then there was for example YF+U for the P-47D-2-RA, "Beetle", serial number 42-22490 at the Sond.Aufkl.St.103
    (Special Reconnaissance Squadron 103)

    E1+ to E5+ was testing station Rechlin, the KG 200 flew only multi-engine airplanes in service

    10+KH is the alleged designation of the captured P-40, and that does not fit any scheme for the circus planes
    What makes me suspicious is the fact that there is not the slightest other evidence of this A/C.
    The suspicion
    arises that a C&P continuation error arose due to an originally wrong assumption in a secondary source.
    Wouldn't be the first time that through a mixture of weak sources, speculation and artistic freedom some exotic was created that never existed in reality.
     
  14. ltdan

    ltdan Active Member

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  15. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Oh wow, thanks for the info. There was a lot that goes into understanding the markings. I found this video the other day.

    Do you happen to know of any good books on the subject? The zircus seems to be really mysterious in itself. I had never even heard of it until i started researching this p40 project. I think i may paint it with the yellow tail and belly just because the whole thing is kind of mysterious in itself.
     
  16. ltdan

    ltdan Active Member

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    Since I assume you prefer English language publications:
    On Special Missions: The Luftwaffe's Research and Experimental Squadrons 1923-1945 (Air War Classics)
    by John Richard Smith, Eddie J. Creek, Peter Petrick, Carlos M. Herrera

    Fully recommended. For me, as a nerd who has been studying air warfare for 25 years, there are a few
    minor "blemishes", but this is completely negligible for the average reader

    Here is a little suggestion
    a1.jpg
     
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  17. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    Ordered that book, lol i am turning into quite the nerd with this stuff. I find it all really interesting. Like i said i never knew about any of this until i started thinking of paint. Yes i just saved that picture, going to change the number to 10+KH. I found several other pics of that plane as well. I think this is a pretty neat topic thats not really discussed very much at all. So my understanding is there was a actually 2 sides to this? The kg200 flew heavies and the zircus had the fighters?
     
  18. ltdan

    ltdan Active Member

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    Luftwaffe KG 200: The German Air Force's Most Secret Unit of World War II (Stackpole Military History)

    With this you have the two known exotic formations complete.

    Weather reconnaissance squadrons or long-range reconnaissance squadrons are then once again a topic in itself :D
    I would be really eager to see pictures of your project
     
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  19. HomerS

    HomerS New Member

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    This is as far as i have gotten lol. I been waiting on the landing gear before i really started on it. I now have some more parts and pieces so when i get home from work in a few days i can start working on it. Its going to be a slow process as i work away from home for 20 days at a time and the time home i try to split between family and building lol. I honestly had no clue the Luftwaffe was so vast and had so much secretive stuff. Screenshot_20220514-090749_2_50.png Screenshot_20220514-090658_50.png
     
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