Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Centre-Right parties are giving hope to the more radical Far-Right.

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Ben Dover, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    The London borough of Croydon, GB
    The Brexit vote praised by fascists over Europe was not from a fascist mindset;
    It was the UK Tory Party, in power with David Cameron, his party are in control of Brexit with a very recent vote introduced for Parliament on Brexit; it was not UKIP; The leave side of David Cameron's party may have been in bed with UKIP but the remain side of David Cameron's party (including the PM himself, David Cameron)..
    Theresa May's now the PM, same party, same centre-right not far-right party; she voted remain but now is charged with the responsibility of Brexit. The system works.
    Far right parties like AfD in Germany and La Pen's presidential race in France, is guilty of confusing Brexit with far-right.
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    10,103
    Likes Received:
    2,574
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Brexit played right into all the nationalist, populist, fascist concerns.

    How did you expect the far-right of the US, UK, and Europe to react?

    The Leave campaign used all the cards that preyed on peoples' fears, the same cards the far-right uses on a daily basis, and now you are whining about it.

    Suck it up, buttercup.

    You opened the Pandora's Box, just as Trump's Presidential Campaign did.
     
  3. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    The London borough of Croydon, GB
    The UK and US is capable, Germany it seems to be like France, incapable of abstract thought.
    To them, if you love your flag and your currency, you're a Fascist.
    It's not Britain's fault these people in Germany confuse patriotism with evil.
     
    ColHessler likes this.
  4. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    10,103
    Likes Received:
    2,574
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    And what do you have to say about German patriotism from 1933-1945?
     
  5. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    The London borough of Croydon, GB
    I say it's why it's a taboo subject for them in 2017 and that lack of patriotism today is their problem (not ours); a problem they shouldn't force on to others.
    Flags mean something, people die for them.

    Abstract thought says I can love my flag and not be a racist fore my flag is not racist; These people seem incapable of abstract thought.
     
  6. green slime

    green slime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    584
    It actually might help the world if more people saw where blind patriotism leads. Abstract thought allows people to question the motives of their leaders and even the myths provided (WMD in Iraq!)

    Dying for a flag seems like a pretty useless reason to die for.

    I doubt many claim to fight for a flag. It's just a symbol. Its the ideas the flag is supposed to represent that may be worth dying for. Apparently, blatantly lying about Intel is something some flags represent these days.

    Some people just do it for the adventure of it all. Some believe they are fighting injustice. Others maybe just to make Haliburton that little bit richer.
     
  7. Brian Smith

    Brian Smith Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Bridlington East Riding Yorkshire England
    Not sure how you reconcile this weak paragraph with your headline.
     
  8. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    452
    Unfortunately the concerns are real, what is a lot more iffy is the right (including the moderates) claiming to have a solution, but faced with the painfully obvious fact the traditional parties do not have one and have significant responsibilities in having painted ourselves into this corner what is a voter to do?

    So called "moderates" putting the same highly emotional issues to the front as the extreme right will indirectly legittimize them, and hide the fact that most of their vision is based on a romantic "the will will conquer all" delusion, politics is vision, and vision serves the vital role of motivating people, good government on the other hand is compromise and ruthlessly dismissing "the best" in favor of "the possible", very few people are good at both (and those that are quite often are afflicted by megalomania which is an undesirable trait in a leader) that's one reason you need complex systems of checks and balances to have a chance to have both.

    There are huge differences from country to country, Brexit and Trump are not the same, options like increasing social spending to boost the economy (belated Keynes) may be viable in the USA but make no sense in places like Italy where the huge state budget has to all intent and purposes killed the economy, nobody will invest when the best you can do is break even because of taxes..
     
  9. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,773
    Likes Received:
    568
    Location:
    London UK
    One of the less attractive features of the current mood is that it has emboldened many people to express anti semitic, racist and xenophobic opinions that self restraint, peer pressure and good manners would have not been aired. Brexit in particular has been coloured with the language that you would not use about your neighbours and trading partners.

    These can rebound. Radio 4 broadcast about Turkey reported that many Turks found the vote leave claim that Britian would be overwhelmed by 70 million Turks was deeply offensive.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    1)"Peer pressure" is for the under 16s; we adults are quite capable of making our own minds up.
    And if by "peer pressure" you mean doing what we're told by the likes of Lily Allan, Gina Miller and Bob Geldof, guess where you can ram that idea.
    2) "Self-restraint" is the only reason the above haven't been told to go eff themselves by the rest of us.
    3) "Good Manners" doesn't being mean keeping your mouth shut because you don't dare to have a different opinion to the sheep around you.
    4) The terms "anti-Semitic", "racist" and "xenophobic" have been so overused by so-called "liberals" (who can't stand the idea of anyone having a different opinion) to the point where they are now meaningless. I was watching a 1966 film on a Freeview channel earlier; before it started, it came with a warning about it containing "outdated racist stereotypes which some people might find offensive". And the source of this horror? Ian McShane played a gypsy, and someone called him a "Gippo".
    Almost as bad as the time STV showed The Dambusters and blanked out every reference to "Nigger".
     
  11. Brian Smith

    Brian Smith Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Bridlington East Riding Yorkshire England
    With the amount that has been said\written on both sides of the Brexit argument in such a short time it has certainly focused in one some of these areas, however not sure they ever went away. But if the case you suggest is right it shows we have not moved on in this area, surely it is not a matter of keeping these thoughts bottled up or having good manners it is about education and changing perceptions.
     
    green slime likes this.
  12. m kenny

    m kenny Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Likes Received:
    225
    Watching old 'On The Busses' episodes it is striking how nearly every non white character is called 'chalky'. I wonder why anyone could get upset about little things like that.
     
  13. m kenny

    m kenny Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Likes Received:
    225
    To lighten the mood:


    The delightfully husky- voiced Joan Greenwood shooting your fox.

    https://youtu.be/fYTxIw6kjZ0?t=55s

    She was also the voice of the Black Queen in Barbarella

    https://youtu.be/Ak1227_mOqU?t=18s
     

Share This Page