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Cold War an extension of Nazi Policy

Discussion in 'Post War 1945-1955' started by GunSlinger86, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    I think any comparision between Nazi policy with others will be a tough sell. I understand, at least I think I do, regarding how Communism in America was propagandized and a feared political system. The Cold War propaganda in the US was heavy, but the National Socialist political agenda was also propagandized but was based solely on aggression, hate, right winged nationalism and violence. When looking at the overall scope of the burgeoning Nazi rule one only has to look at the 25 Point Program:

    Policy 4 for example, "Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman."
    And also

    Policy 8: "Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately."

    My point is that National Socialism was born and evolved into the most evil regime in history. When comparing any policy to the Nazis will always recieve scrutiny.


    http://www.historyplace.com/
     
  2. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Except of course we didn't, Wipe out millions of Vietnamese or Koreans that is. Stating that we had "no problem" with it isn't exactly a correct statement either.
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Your "meaning" is still quite problematic. We certainly didn't take the fight against Communism anywhere near to the level the Nazis did. Nor was their the level or even type of hatred shown by the Nazis in general. There were a few in the US who wanted to take it to that level but they were pretty soundly repudiated.

    Your argument in general is the equivalent of saying that since humans share the majority of their DNA with zebra fish (~85%) we are fish or zebra fish are human.
     
  4. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ok Kj..I have to say the nazi regime caused the most destruction, murder, etc only because they had the technology--if that's what you mean.....but there have been many evil regimes.....the Hutus murdered more Tutsis faster, ....so more people, by percentage, participated directly in the murders....
     
  5. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    You also fail to take into account Soviet actions during the Cold War against the US, to include;

    Revelations from a plethora of Soviet defectors that coincided with the crumbling of the Soviet Union has provided ample evidence that Soviet espionage, subversion, financial support of and manipulation of many domestic US entities was much more widespread than most Americans believed post McCarthy/Red Scare era.
     
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  6. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    There is no way I am starting up that debate Bronk, lol.

    My point was explaining why members, IMO, have a problem with comparing the US Cold War policy to the Nazi policy of propoganda. It's a tough sell for anyone.
     
  7. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    The central problem with the original premise is in the statement that US Cold War 'policy' was very similar to Nazi Policy. When one speaks of Nazi Policy the natural response is to contemplate the Final Solution in all it's malevolent splendor. The OP amended it somewhat by saying he only meant as it pertained to fear/hatred of Soviet Communism and the propaganda effort directed to that.

    Unfortunately the OP included 'eugenic's and segregation' as part of his proof for this connection to a similar policy between Cold War America and the Third Reich. Awfully hard not to infer the worst from this. Worse they are not even good fodder for the discussion when looked at dispassionately.

    Eugenic's had largely been discredited before American entry into WWII and was a taboo subject after the revelations of Germany's Final Solution. Please feel free to cite any that took place after 1945 and before the fall of the Soviet Union, but they are few and far between. Those that may have were not US government 'policy'. Regrettably many enlightened nations flirted with the pseudo science of Eugenics in the first half of the 20th century, but no one took it to the extremes that Hitler's Germany did and all officially dropped it after WWII.

    Then there is Segregation.

    Both Eugenics and Segregation have their root in racism which is hardly a Nazi invention. Racism predates Hitler by at least 3,500 years of recorded history and probably goes back to before the first encounter between Homo Sapiens and their less advanced cousins.

    The thing is during the Cold War no greater progress took place in race relations and the fair treatment of African Americans than this period except for the Civil War. Truman integrated the Military in the late 1940's, the Federal government used all its organs, including the US military, to enforce civil rights. Not very Nazi like is it. A hard process to be sure and some work remains to be done even today, but the racism came from the bottom up, not the top down as it would in Hitler's Germany.

    More to the point the generic racism practiced within the US had little impact on the Soviet Union. Not many 'African-Russians' over there, nor were we agitating about the Jewish population within Russia. Indeed they had more to fear from Moscow than Washington. Look up the "Doctor's Plot" of Soviet history. Nazi racism was founded on anti Pan Slavic feelings, our quibble had to do with Communism as a form of government. True Nazi propaganda denounced Communism, but even if they had been Republican's Hitler would still have invaded.

    Which brings us to the final point. We never invaded Russia, nor seriously contemplated the idea. We were ready to make them glow if they got too frisky, but US policy was to contain Russian Communism, not destroy it utterly. In fact it was called Containment from the beginning. Again, not very Nazi like.

    We used some of the same tools to do this, but they were the only tools available and the same as Russia used against us.
     
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  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I disagree with a fair amount of this. Eugenics isn't a pseudo science it's simply the application of selective breeding to humans. The problem isn't so much with the science but the application. For one thing people haven't been very good at selecting what traits to breed for even in dogs (witness a number of breeds that have been rendered near on to useless due to breeding for certain traits). The other and related question is who should get to decide and perhaps more important should anyone get to decide. The problem with Egenics isn't science it's politics and philosophy (and arguably religion).
     
  9. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    I would have to agree. Yes, there is a science to eugenics, but the philosophy of selection has momentous moral and political issues. It's a question of power. Those who are deemed suitable will likely be those that are pulling the strings.
     
  10. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Not just power but even defining what is desirable is a rather difficult thing. Some things can be easily recognized as undesirable but even now figuring out if other traits offset them or not is not a trivial exercise.
     
  11. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    I concede there is a element of science involved, but all too often mad science. lwd points out himself that so many 'pure bred' breeds of dog have serious health and temperament problems not seen in mixed breed 'mutts', who in my experience have always been better dogs. Then there is our genetically engineered crops which have both negative impacts on the environment and are often susceptible to problems of their own.

    Gene splicing/ therapy might make a better human or be the end of humanity itself.
     
  12. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Your right about that. If eugenics were to proceed in the modern era, the science would be a huge component.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    With Eugenics the how isn't all that much of a problem in many ways. The why, the what, and the who on the other hand are huge problems. There have been a number (well at least 2) SF stories by the title of Bladerunner (ignoring the movie based Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep I believe). One of them dealt very well with a seemingly very successful Eugenics campaign that went horribly wrong. (of course the premise - that physical health was the key characteristic to select for was rather questionable to begin with).
     
  14. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    I meant Nazi policy in regards to Communism, and I'm in no way saying the US is an Occultist murderous regime like the Nazis were, they were basically all Occultists... I didn't say the US was out to kill Jews or any other Nazi policies, just that one area. And we expanded West and killed and put Native Americans in forced camps along the way.

    That one 25 point example.. Jewish is a religion, so that doesn't make sense at all. A person who practices Judaism born in Germany would technically have German blood.
     
  15. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    Mixed message much?
     
  16. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Well you can make a case for it if you ignore the setting and the differences and only look at the similarities. Even then not a particularly strong case though.
     
  17. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWeZ5SKXvj8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otXIaIxkWTI
     

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