Cretan civilians VS German paratroopers in Crete

I find myself agreeing with that statement. If populations do not want to be killed needlessly then they shouldn't kill their occupier. But in many cases it is the few that ruin it for all.

 

obviously you have not been under an oppressing thumb before. What is the price of Freedom I ask. allowing oneself to give up and be rolled over is foolish

 

Shucks. How dare some just ruin the thrill and experience of being attacked and occupied . Damn all those who fight for thier homes and family when thier homeland is attacked. I guess the same goes for those nasty Resistance fighters too. Just ruining it for everyone .

 

I remember seeing a programme years ago (can't for the life of me remember the name of it)...but it was about the invasion of Crete, and the maker's of the programe came in touch with an old Crete farmer, who, in his little house, hidden away was a 'perfect condition' weapons canaster, which he had found/captured (along with it's contents) on the first day of the para drops - the weapons were still in working order etc

But he said that other farmers/civilians had also captured weapon canasters on that first day,and that some used the weapons against the lightly armed German paratroopers (who would have been looking for the very same weapons).

But in a suituation such as that - if you were a german paratrooper and "civilians' were shooting at you with "your" own MP40.......i would think it would be "fair game" to shoot back
(but not women and children, or unarmed of course)

 

But you weren't there though. Thats the point. It's easy to say what you would or wouldn't do with over 60 years of hindsight. At the moment you would do what you thopught was right. The Cretans were doing what they thought was right to defend thier homeland from invaders.

 

Oh i agree totally with you JC.......like its sort of a no win situation, the cretans defending their homelands, fellow farmers etc and country, and the germans obeying orders or simply defending themselves ....... war

 

Yup. I think its funny trying to equate legality with it. Like I said I have no problem with defending themselves. Its the mutilation and murders afterwards I think were criminal.

 

If you were a paratrooper and say your best friend was pitchforked or you came across a paratrooper hanging from a tree with slash marks all over him. Do you think that you or your mates might get overcome with anger? Im not saying go about shooting everyone but I can see adult men getting the firing squad as they were all question marks. If they gave you a hard time dont you think you could justify doing the same? I know we are looking back but I could see anybody thinking that way. Please note that in NO-WAY I support killing civilians.


I know that in some cases during occupations that it was even said "For every one of my people your resistance kills I shall kill ten of your people" That was what I meant on the few ruining it for the most.

 

What i see here is mostly uneducated cowards. The cretan population had every right to defend there land, if you wouldnt do that yourself you are a disgrace to your ancestors. No wonder why greece has 3000 years of history.I would personally mutalate any invader any day, but what the cretan population did was hardly that. If you have no firearms to defend yourself, you use clubs, sticks and knifes. Try killing someone with a stick, and see how civil it would be, or maybe get hit by a butchers knife in the arm, i bet you it would cut right threw. War follows no rules, the germans during ww2 commited many war criemes in greece. If you are so influenced by german propaganda to the point of which you believe that the cretans brutaly killed poor germans fot theirplessure you might as well wave a nazi flag around. Without greek resistance ww2 could have been a dramatic lose for the allies. Greeks fight like heroes, heroes fight like greeks, what churchile should have said. Now, as you are all a bunch of savages trying to justify german war crimes, i might add most civilians and resistance members fought with antique firearms, and when they ran out of ammo charged german positions with bayonets while british troops ran to their ships, so years latter they could say that theyhelped the greeks in a time of need. So, have in mind that greeks where braver than your entire family tree.Read about the grmman war crimes commited i greece and than talk about the cretan civilian resistance, pathetic coward

 

...And a hearty "welcome" to you too!

 

Well I think the Cretan's did their best under the circumstances, and whatever weapons the allies left behind or abandoned they used in the underground. I have really no knowledge on the Cretan way of resisting, but I would think they would go more for the sabotage and misdirection way (Still incredibly dangerous and courageous), rather than confronting the Germans intentionally in firefights or otherwise.

 

These "little dolls" – German paratroopers of General Kurt Student’s XI Air Corps – were highly trained and motivated. For ten days they, and the elite mountain troops that were sent to reinforce them, hunted and were hunted by Australian, New Zealand, British, and Greek soldiers, as well as Cretan farmers, townspeople, and police. Fighting was savage and bloody, with little quarter given. Men fought to the death in solitary duels or major engagements; their bodies cluttered the narrow streets of the towns or lay among the olive trees and creek beds of the countryside. Forty years later, Ted Randolf of the 2/7th Field Ambulance remembered: "A sickly, sweet smell drifted through the area getting stronger until one could taste it in the mouth. The smell was of the dead. I can still taste it. Once it is with you, you never forget it!"

 

A "bit out of line", I think is putting it nicely.

 

Lining up civilians and gunning them down takes no courage, killing the most elite german soldiers with pitchforks and muskets, takes a lot of courage. Hitler himself said that only the greeks fought with bold courage. And now, 60 years later, you see debates about justifying village massaceres (In total 70000 greeks where executed by both germans and italians, and also bulgarians). If the greek civilians didnt take up arms, not only would germany overwhelm the russians before the winter, but most likely it would have been a complete loss for the allies. When the outnumbered (and significantly outgunned) greek army faced off the italians (with tremendus suport from the local civilians , that helped in carrying amunition and weaponry, and fought if capable of doing so) and won, it was the first segnificant allied victory (that was completely unexpected by the other countries, and thought to be impossible). Greece embarashed mussolin, therefore hitler post ponned every plan to attack russia, which in that time had a peace treaty with germany, giving the russians enough time to prepare. As im going completely off track, i should add that around 10000 civilians where killed fighting in crete alone. The greek populatioon suffered the worst under german occupation and percentage wise, lost 5 times more people most of the other countries(more than 700.000 greeks died from both fighting in the war, and due to war crimes, as well as famines, which in all would be 10% of its population). If you think that the greeks where at fault for fighting for their country, you are nothing but a disgrace to your ancestors (as i repeat miself), which, in this case, isnt a bold statement to make.

 

Emphasis on "Italian"

Who put a burr up your ass?

 

Stathis, you have to remember that according to international war at the time, civilians weren't supposed to fight. War was an affair between states and only the armed services were to do the fighting. You had to wear a uniform or something that identified you as a combatant. Possibly exceptions could perhaps be made for civilians tending to the wounded or carrying supplies but not for being armed and fighting. When you get into the torture and mutilation of prisoners and the wounded you are REALLY asking for horrible retaliation. The Germans of that time weren't known for their sophisticated and nuanced response to partisan warfare. The civilians who did these things certainly didn't think about the possible consequences of their actions.

 

Under the laws of war at the time "reprisals" were also legal but they had to be "proportional" and follow certain rules. The German reprisals tended not to be within the conventions.

 

Absolutely it took courage not just for the Greeks, but any and all occupied peoples to stand up and fight against their enemies. The Greeks and Yugoslavians certainly were among the more successful partisan and resistance groups in the war, but the same can be said about the Chinese (both Nationalist and Communist) the Soviet Union and her occupied states, Poland (The Warsaw Uprising), and the French Empire.