DEFINATELY off-topic and I have a reason 4 it.

Anyone wishing to get more and correct info NOT produced by the current media on the War in Afghanistan--please check out Green Beret Master Sergeant Jess Johnson (Retd) website at:

www.sitreponline.com he also has an email for you to ask him questions: jjo550@airmail.net (hopefully I copied the site down correctly)

 

His facts and numbers are right.

 

he is good at what he does and makes sense. I try to listen to sitrep every tuesday night on Jones Overnight.

Get this--just today I learned on the radio that the F.B.I. just arrested a guy--a Muslim American--(actually a HISPANIC-AMerican by the name of (jose somethingorother) complete name escapes me. Anyway he was arrested back in may, for plotting to explode a "dirty bomb" in the US somewhere.

[ 10 June 2002, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

 

Hey Carl,

What should we here in Holland think about that new ASPA legislation? That the US can 'invade' Holland in order to free US military personell that might be held here on charges of war crimes at the International Court?

What is this about? Can't get my head around it! Should we get worried that the complete US 6th fleet is lying just off the coast of Scheveningen, and seals teams raiding the international courthouse and PI?

Damn! We got the longest, uninterrupted diplomatic ties with the US!

I don't wanna go to war with you guys! (we'd loose! )

 

Stevin :

WTH is this I hear ? haven't heard this policy but sorry to say I don't listen much to blah, which Carl has pointed out is full of liberal B.S. generally.

E

 

No erich, I am DEAD serious!

a quote:"The ASPA has been characterized as "The Hague Invasion Act" because it authorizes the U.S. to use force to liberate any U.S. or allied persons detained on behalf of the proposed International Criminal Court (ICC), which will be based in The Hague, The Netherlands"

David Scheffer, Ambassador at Large for War Crimes Issues and Head of the U.S. Delegation to the UN Preparatory Commission for the International Criminal Court Statement, said, before the Congressional Human Rights Caucus, Washington, DC, on September 15, 2000: "Section 8 would authorize the President to use all means necessary and appropriate to free U.S. personnel being detained or imprisoned by or on behalf of the ICC. We would note that the ICC will be located in The Hague, The Netherlands. So, in a curious way, Section 8 contemplates an armed attack on The Netherlands, a close NATO ally of the United States. It is, to put it bluntly, an alarmist provision that only complicates our ability to negotiate our common objective of protection from prosecution. Under the Constitution, the President already has the authority to protect U.S. personnel wherever they are located in the world."

This from the chief negiotiator, Erich!!!

As I said, Holland has the longest, uninterrupted diplomatic ties with the US. We were the first to recognize the new United States of America. We even payed back all the Marshall Plan funds we got after WW2 ( ). As the only nation to do so!

I just don't get this. I doubt that the US would ever bring their fleet just off the coast of Scheveningen and I doubt Seal teams will operate in such way in The Hague, but the idea that force against Holland is authorized by law strikes me as

What if??? I hope we won't be the next nation in this 'Axis of Evil'

 

hello Stevin: I have never heard of this--but then there are hundreds of thousands of things that us common citizens will never learn anything about.

One things for sure--we would never go to war with Holland--besides--I havent visited that beautiful country and met enough of its excellent citizens---yet.

Holland to me is like Canada is to the USA--were friends and nothing will change that--as far as im concerned. Heck--if the USA were to declare war on Germany--that is something I would never support--nor would I support it if they ever did so on Holland--nor on Canada--Australia--England--Spain--Norway--Finland--Austria--Belgium--Luxembourg--Switzerland etc.

Ive met many wonderful people from these places and others--and there is no way I would ever support an action against any of these--however--if they invaded places like Iran and Iraq--they have my total support.

I dont know if it has been mentioned on Jess's site or not but, did you know that in just the last 2 years--Mexican soldiers have "invaded" (crossed our borders over 200 times) this was to protect illegal drug smugglers doing their trade. Our Border patrol has been fired upon by these crooked creeps over half of those times that they wrongfully invaded the US.

My Grandfather--fought against Pancho Villa (A Mexican "revolutionary") was cerdited for killing several of his "banditos" which two that he killed--were among the raiders who raided Columbus, New Mexico--last century.

We havent gone to war with mexico for this--and we will not do so with Holland either. Besides--I do not think that Holland would hold our guys hostage anyway--as much as we wouldnt hold anyone from Holland.

ill have to check out sitrep more often. I tell you one thing, agree or disagree--one will learn much from this site on what is "really" happening in the world that out lousy presses refuse to report to us--the common citizens of the world.

PS, sorry to sound like a propagandist--wasnt meant to.

 

Excuse my language all.......but what a bitch ! How ridiculous, but look at the world today. Everyone is totally suspect. My son went to the Ukraine for 9 weeks 4 days ago and I watched him being ruf-housed during the private inspection. If there would not have been 5 armed security guys there I would have busted the inspector's head wide open with anything I could reach in my bare hands. My son could see my anger in my face from 20 yards away and looked at me to say, don't do anything dad......Geeez ! what we have come to !!
Well if anything Stevin, I could see our naval personell use possible one of the ports as a jumping off base for something that may get out of hand in the north sea or possibly farther to the northeast above the Soviet Union.

E, totally peeved

 

Thanks for the support guys! I would be really surprised if the US would ever violate Dutch souvereignity (?).

I understand that the US would want to protect their soldiers from an International Court they haven't ratified. The thing is, Holland wouldn't actually keep these soldiers (accused of war crimes), but it would be the 'International Community'or UN.

Ah well, maybe we are overreacting here.

I feel with you Erich. It is not nice to see loved ones treated like that. I recieved an e-mail from an US vet not too long ago, also complaning about the treatment he recieved at an airport. The 75+ guy was told, not asked, to take his shoes off twice in the same airport. Geez, I understand security issues, but do they have to be such jerks about it?'I mean, a 75+ VETERAN!

But, on the other hand, is it easy to bitch about these things; these people are responsible for
our security and I am sure that weighs heavy on many of them.

Carl, interesting stuff on your granddad! Got that story documented? These incursions of the mexicans is really bogus. The military protecting drug smugglers? that sucks. As far as I am concerned they should be countered...by all means necessary...

Yes, sitrep is a good site. I am actually editing my friends company newsletter...also called The SitRep....

 

Wow! That is a new one. I doubt it would ever come to that nor would the US follow through with an "invasion". Of all the European countries I have visited, The Netherlands provided the best hospitatlity. Fantastic people. The US will always be the first to defend the Dutch, not invade.

 

Stevin, what you got hold of was the end of a major diplomatic crisis between America and the rest of the world, mostly Europe.

The way the American government is currently conducting its foreign policy towards its closest allies is especially disgusting. They are coming quite close to Stalin's methods, using only brute force, violent threats, including trade war and actual shooting war against - as I said before - their closest allies.

NOBODY over here in Europe knows what to make of it. Obviously the government of America can't go to war against us because public opinion would be radically against it. More even - there's a real danger that such an act would start a war that America might lose. America's actions in the past half year in this respect have been TOTALLY irrational and TOTALLY out of character.

But every word you said was completely true. And whether you are over-reacting only time can answer. Something's up, only nobody is quite sure what. America appears to be panicking for some reason unknown to us, and has been for quite a while.

PS: With "America" I always mean the government and whatever idiots are currently formulating foreign policy there. They are not making you any friends.

 

As an addendum - if you say America should have the right to keep its citizens out of a court it hasn't ratified, should not Yugoslavia enjoy the same right?

Also: with all of this I am not referring to the war in Afghanistan or anything like that, but merely America-Europe diplomacy, which is hanging in shreds.

 

Hello Stevin--and thanks. Heres a bit more. My grandfather also went to Mexico with General John "Blackjack" Pershing. I think he served as a scout?? but not sure. He wasnt in the Army at that time.

Andreas--believe me--we here are as uncertain as you guys are over there on the forign diplomosies that are now going on--I dont understand much of it myself.

[ 12 June 2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

 

All of this is news to me and totally unbelievable

 

P.S. I forgot to mention this news tidbit.

We do have some Marines who are stationed along the border--or at least there were some on the border here in Texas as of about 2 years ago.

There was an "incident" along the border which involved a shooting. A young hispanic-american boy (I think he was 15 or 16) was shot and killed by a Marine.

Now get this:

The kid shot at a Marine with his .22 Cal Rifle, and this was late at night. The Marine shot the kid dead.

Now what would you guys have done had you been in the Marines place? I too would have shot him as he was armed, but being at night--the marine could not possibly see that the rifle the kid had was only a .22 Cal Rifle.

Also, why was that kid out there at that time--and with a Rifle? Clearly this kid was looking for trouble--found the trouble, and was killed because of his foolishness.

The kids parents TRIED their best to make this a racial issue, and tried to sue the US Govt. Just what the heck did the US Govt do that was so wrong? Not a damn thing..........................

Anyway--to the someone with brains credit--the lawsuit went nowhere and the whole affair was quickly forgotten about.

We Americans who live along the border with Mexico--have to put up with this BS all the time. Illegal Aliens constantly flooding across the Rio Grande--and smuggeling drugs etc--stealing and in some cases--killing Americans.

A killing (Rape/murder) happened about 2-1/2 yrs ago by a piece of crap illegal who slithered across the border of Texas--hitched a ride on a train--came up through the Kingsville--Corpus Christi area and made its way to Houston. Along the way, this ******* killed several Americans (ala--A Serial Killer) and I think the last one he killed was a good looking female--in her apartment in Houston. This turd repetedly raped her--tied her up and if I remember correctly--it slit her throat which caused her death.

I was working as a C.O. 111 at that time for the state of texas. Many of us carried guns in our vehicles because this serial killed was operating in our area. All of us wanted nothing more than to get our hands on this thing--needless to say--it would NOT have lived another day.

This type of turd is what slithers across our borders daily. Same thing can happen to Canada. We also do not have a monopoly on this--look at what has been happening to many European countries like Germany, Switzerland, Norway-Denmark (just to name a few) Instead of them getting folks in from Mexico--they get them from Croatia--Russia--etc.

[ 12 June 2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

 

Tha Marne did the right thing. All he kew was that he was being shot at. We had similar problems in Irelad were little kids would run around with toy guns, as kids do. Some of these look vey realistic, especially at a distance. Ifyou see the arrel of a gun come round he corner and point at you, you don't wait for someone to get shot. Lukyly no kidswere klled hrouh this, t there were a few close calls.

 

Thanks Bish, and I totally agree with you. These people bring it upon theirselves.

Our leftist news media reports anything to do with British Troops in N. Ireland, they are always trying to make the British out as the bad guys even though the Irish are the ones doing the ambushes, bombings and murders. I will not forget what happened at that shopping mall in London--I thik it was in? They are the very SAME kind of trash as what we now face with the taliban an al queda.

 

Bish and Carl - I totally agree. It's like you said. What is that guy doing there with a gun? And besides...that's why the marine was there for in the first place. To stop these incursions.

Andreas - GOOD post. My sentiments exactly. I do realise that an actual invasion is very unlikely. There are a lot of 'what if's' and 'when's' involved. But I just don't get the US government's 'over-anxiousness' at times. They seem to distrust everybody now. And that leads to policy-making that seems to have a double standard in them, just like Andreas says; Why is the US so concerned about bringing the Serb, Croatian, Bosnian and Combodian war criminals to trail (at the International Court), but at the same time they refuse to have US servicemen stand trail there.

Anyway, this might turn into a political discussion. There is a lot to say about this subject. I for myself am just concerned about the way the US-European cooperation and understanding is going. At a governmental level. This forum, and many others, show that we in Europe have more in common with our American friends than things that could divide us....

 

Bish, Carl, I agree absolutely with you. If a teenager broke into a German base he could shot for a lot less than that. As for taking pot-shots at armed soldiers, that's simply asking for it. I would call it suicide. BTW - so the guy had a .22 rifle... well the Marine has a .223! The mere size of the bullet is no indication of the danger.

Stevin and all: The Internet has certainly led to a quite close bond between the peoples of Europe, America and the whole rest of the world. But our governments still work their own way, and the American one is apparently going berserk right now, performing actions which no European government can understand anymore.