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Delayed Response

Discussion in 'War in the Pacific' started by Mussolini, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Who else is there? This is 1935, and Douglas MacArthur was the US Army Chief of Staff...

    If there was anyone else...It would have been Douglas MacArthur ordering Douglas MacArthur to the Philippines in 1935. Otherwise, it would have been Malin Craig, who took over for MacArthur as Chief of Staff.

    As to MacArthur's recall in 1941, as OpanaPointer says, Roosevelt wanted it, and Marshall made it happen.
     
  2. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    Before we dive too deeply into a MacArthur bitchfest perhaps we ought to recall the words of Clauswitz on the Friction of War.

    " Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is very difficult"

    "the light of reason is refracted in a manner quite different from that which is normal in academic speculation "

    " a general in time of war is constantly bombarded by reports, both true and false; from errors from fear or negligence of hastiness; by disobedience born of right or wrong interpretations, of ill will, of a proper or mistaken sense of duty, of laziness, or of exhaustion; and by accidents nobody could have foreseen."

    War is a human endevour and like any human activity we try to reduce it to some mathematical equation where the same results always come out the other end. As noted by Clauswitz, friction does not always allow for this.

    A CAP was supposed to be over the airfield at the time of the refueling, dispatched from another airfield but they were not on station on time and Japanese attack planes arrived at the right moment to cause maximum damage. Luck in war can be fickle, some six months latter US dive bombers arrived over Japanese Carriers at just the right moment to do maximum damage despite a deployed, but out of position, CAP.

    All commanders suffer friction in war, times were all the best planning, all the good intentions, all the well thought out orders of the day goes tits up. For Ike events like Slapton Sands, DD Tanks at Omaha beach, Leopoldville and the bombing of US troops during Cobra come to mind. We do not excoriate Eisenhower because bad things happen in war.
     
  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    That pool has not even been filled yet, no sense in diving into it.

    Well, that is not entirely true.

    The 21st squadron had been dispatched to cover Clark in the interim, but, prior to the Clark attack, was ordered to fly standing patrol over Cavite and Manila. C Flight of the 21st missed these new orders and was proceeding to Clark, but some of their aircraft were having engine problems which forced two to return to Nichols. The 34th Squadron was sitting on the ground at Del Carmen waiting for orders, that had been issued, to patrol over Clark Field, but, for reasons unknown, never arrived at Del Carmen.
     
  4. Highway70

    Highway70 Member

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    β€œIn preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower


    Helmuth von Moltke the Elder



      • Paraphrased: "
        • No plan survives contact with the enemy."
     
  5. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    I know you guys like going off on tangents, but can we try to stay on topic? Constantly going back and forth at each other over disagreements etc that derail a thread and take it off topic kinda kill things here. I kinda feel like this happens more often than not in threads these days.

    So lets get back on the subject of why nothing more was done once it was clear the USA was at War with the Japanese in regards to the Philippines - ie the subject of this topic. If you want to debate politics, go create a new thread for that.

    So, the planes from Clarks Field were up in the air sans-bombs when the order was finally given to bomb Formosa. They landed to be refitted and refueled, but why not take at-war measures in doing so? It appears that only some of the aircraft were parked behind berms, but the majority of them were parked on the runway.

    The original attack was supposed to have taken off at 2:30AM so it would reach its target (Clark Field) just after sunup, roughly the same moment as Pearl Harbor was to be attacked. Due to weather on the ground in Formosa, it didn't take off until 8:45 AM with all pilots expecting stiff resistance as the element of surprise had been lost (IE Pearl Harbor had been attacked, ergo the Americans knew they were coming). When they arrived over Clark Field, "some sixty enemy bombers and fighters neatly parked along the airfield runways...squatted there like sitting ducks." (Saburo Saki). Saki was also confused as to why no American aircraft were in the skies to meet them. The turkey shoot followed and the airforce was destroyed on the ground.
     
  6. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    How exactly was it not true? One squadron was dispatched, but was redirected en-route, another had orders cut but somehow they did not reach the squadron. There were supposed to be a CAP but friction (and limited resources) conspired to leave the target uncovered.
     

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