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Demolition of the monument to Marshal Konev in Prague: the struggle against the legacy of communism

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SlavkoKro, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. SlavkoKro

    SlavkoKro New Member

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    On April 3, a monument to Marshal Ivan Konev was demolished in Prague. This person commanded the Soviet troops who liberated the Czech capital in May 1945. In recent years, countries of Eastern Europe have been struggling with the legacy of the communist era, destroying not only the monuments glorifying the Red Army, but also the buildings associated with the time when these countries were Moscow satellites. For example, in 2017, Polish activists took the initiative to demolish one of the highest buildings in the European Union - the Palace of Culture and Science in Warsaw. It was a gift from the Soviet Union to socialist Poland. The idea was supported by Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance Mateusz Moravecki, Minister of Culture and National Heritage Professor Peter Glinsky and former Foreign Minister Radoslav Sikorsky.

    [​IMG]
    Palace of Culture and Science in Warsaw

    The building, by the way, is not abandoned - it houses two museums of the Polish Academy of Sciences, as well as its administration, two theaters, a swimming pool, a 300-seat congress hall and exhibition venues, along with offices of commercial firms. To demolish a building with a height of 231 meters and a total area of more than 123 thousand square meters is not as simple as a monument. However, a lot of historical monuments have already been dismantled in Poland, including the ones on the territory of the military burial sites of the Red Army.

    Behind the war of the Poles and Czechs with the bronze Soviet soldiers and generals stands a keen sense of wounded national dignity. They perceive these memorials as a symbol of the Kremlin’s power over their countries, the power that was dumped through years of struggle. That is why the monument to Marshal Konev was annually attacked by vandals on the eve of the anniversary of Prague Spring.

    However, Marshal Konev and his soldiers had nothing to do with the deaths of 108 Czechoslovak citizens in August 1968. In May 1945, the Soviet Union paid the lives of almost 12 thousand people to liberate Prague and support a revolt against German occupation. On May 6, it was Marshal Konev who decided to go on the offensive to support the rebels. He was awarded the title of "Honorary citizen of Prague".

    Moreover, the restoration of Czech statehood became possible only due to the political will of Moscow. Of course, Joseph Stalin pursued his own goals, recreating Czechoslovakia within the pre-war borders, but the fact that the modern sovereign Czech Republic, a full member of the European Union, still exists is a direct result of mentioned events. Marshal Konev and his soldiers brought the Czechs not only the liberation of their capital, but also the opportunity to recreate their own state. Indeed, from March 1939 to May 1945, there was no such country as Czechoslovakia.

    According to the results of the Munich agreement, signed between Hitler, Mussolini, British Prime Minister Chamberlain and French Prime Minister Daladier on the night of September 29-30, the Sudetenland, populated by ethnic Germans, became part of the Reich. In fact, the powers, supposed to be the guarantors of the independence and security of Czechoslovakia, left it in the lurch. Officials in London and Paris hoped that this would quench Hitler's appetites. By the way, on the eve of the Munich conference, only the Soviet Union volunteered to provide military assistance to Czechoslovakia, however Poland did not let the Soviet troops to pass through its territory. Probably it was done due to the preparation to annex the Zaolzie, inhabited by 80 thousand of Poles. The Polish army entered this territory on September 30, when the Wehrmacht troops occupied the Sudetenland.

    [​IMG]

    Chamberlain: "SHH-HH! HE’LL BE QUIET NOW - MAYBE!"
    British cartoon, 1938


    Chamberlain and Daladier were mistaken, Hitler was not going to stop. On October 7, under the pressure from Berlin, the Czechoslovak government gave Slovakia a wide autonomy. On March 15, 1939 German troops occupied the remains of Czech lands, turning them under a protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. Since that moment the Czech national state has been wiped from the map of Europe with the tacit consent of the great powers. Only the Soviet Union protested against such violation of international law by presenting a note to the German government on March 19.
     
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Gee, I didn't know all that.
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Btv what happened to Zhukov after the war? I recall Stalin humiliated him totally.
     
  4. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Didn’t the Red Army hold up their assault on Warsaw to let the Germans put down the uprising of the Polish Home Army before resuming their advance? The Rooskie’s lull gave the Germans a free hand to mercilessly obliterate the resistance in Warsaw so that they wouldn’t have to do it themselves later. Can’t really blame the Poles for not feeling so warm and fuzzy over Soviet “gifts” while keeping them under their oppressive boot for so long.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Yeah, he was a totalitarian prick. He was also the guy with the power of life and death in the East Bloc.
     
  6. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Stalin? A totalitarian prick? Only on the days he was feeling warm, fuzzy and kindhearted! The world is full of "totalitarian pricks". Stalin was in a whole different class of monster. Only a few humans in all of history were in his class; one of them being Hitler.
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Okay, I'm lazy.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Read Lenins testamement and explain why stalin got to power. ...
     
  9. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Naw.
     
  10. Class of '42

    Class of '42 Active Member

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    I don't think a whole lot of Europeans were crying when old Uncle Joe passed away..if they did it was for the communist newsreels...like to visit the Czech Republic some day...I hear good things about it.
     
  11. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Prague mayor under police protection amid reports of Russian plot
    The mayor of Prague [Zdeněk Hřib] has said he is under police protection from a “risk to my life”, with one Czech investigative outlet reporting he had been targeted in a Russian poisoning plot.
    ...
    On Sunday, the Czech weekly magazine Respekt reported that a person carrying Russian diplomatic papers had arrived in Prague three weeks ago with the objective of assassinating Hřib and another Czech politician, Ondřej Kolář. The news website, citing anonymous sources in Czech intelligence, said the would-be assassin had been carrying a suitcase containing the lethal poison ricin.
    ...
    Kolář, the mayor of the Prague 6 municipality, played a prominent role in efforts to take down a statue to the Soviet-era Marshal Ivan Konev, the removal of which earlier this month was met with angry protests by Russia’s embassy in Prague and in Moscow. “Konev has been toppled, but Konev will stand again – only in the museum,” Kolár said, according to local news reports after the statue was removed.
     
  12. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The Soviets didn't liberate Eastern Europe.
     
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  13. Class of '42

    Class of '42 Active Member

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    According to Pravda they did..against those fascists invaders..some say that newspaper was only good for one thing...wrapping fish in.
     
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  14. Christopher67

    Christopher67 Member

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    What? And no good for number "twos" in the smallest room in every house?.....hard to believe that Soviet industry could not produce it's foremost organ with a definite eye on what it could also accomplish for personal hygiene.....

    Or, maybe that was deliberate policy. You cannot have the words of the Politburo and the Great Leaders being "soiled" in such a manner, now could we?
     
  15. Christopher67

    Christopher67 Member

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    erm….No....

    Rokkosovski's Ukrainian Front ( I forget the number it was designated as) genuinely retreated.

    The people of Warsaw could hear the sounds of battle getting closer and closer, reach a crescendo,.....and then stop....
    The Soviets had just fought one of the biggest tank engagements since Prokhorovka, and had been forced to retreat, but that wasn't the only reason. Their armoured units had outrun their swupply chains, and with the autumn thaw in full swing, Rokossovki's soldiers and armour (what was left of it) were putting themsaelves in an awkward position by trying to liberate Warsaw.

    Then two things happened....

    On the VER DAY that Rokossovski went into retreat, Warsaw's Western Allied backed "London Poles" chose this exact day to trigger the revolt in Warsaw they had been planning for.
    Their leader, Bor Khomorovski, had been lulled into a sence of security to launch by well intentioned Soviet leaflets that had been dropped days earlier encouraging Warsaw and Poland generally, to rise up and throw off the "Fascist yoke"

    Khomorovski's ill starred descision was magnified by a perculiar thing. The London Poles had no open communications with Rokossovski's soldiers, or anyone else in the Soviet military. This was deliberate policy, based on mistrust.
    Now it came back to bite, as Rokossovki sat and regrouped, the London Poles had no way of knowing when he was likely to move again, and had no way of turning back the clock to start the revolt all over again.

    Then, the second thing happened.

    The Polish politicians that had organised and equipped the revolt in London began to badger the Russians into moving forward while the revolt was still in progress. They simply did not believe that Rokossovski had no capacity to move for the time being.
    The British chimed in, making a public declaration that asked Stalin straight out to move in defence of the London Poles.
    Stalin patiently explained the situation. The Poles simply did not believe him. They were still out of contact with the situation on the ground and in the surrounding countryside.

    So....the nPoles decided to go to the Americans, who publically accused the Soviets of not moving forward even when they could. The political shocwaves from this, with the Poles openly lying to the Americans, (by telling them that they had contactwed the Russians, knew the situation, and accusations of betrayal), all of this became far too much for Stalin's patience to endure any longer.

    So now, with the SS moving back into Warsaw, (and incidentally bringing with them some of the best equipment Germany had to offer, like 50 Tiger tanks, "Goliath" radio controlled tankettes, and their 60cm siege mortar "Karl" and "Thor", Stalin decided that a London based Polish government publically lying and taking the credit for Warsaw's liberation was just too much to bear....

    So, Rokossovski, half Polish that he was, had to sit in place. His front regrouped, but could still not move forward. By the time his supplys had been sorted, the SS had already crushed Khomorovski and had enough time to destroy as many buildings as Hitler wanted.

    Had Khomorovski had communications and liason with the Soviets, he could have postponed his uprising.
    Had his political bosses in London been a l;ittle more diplomatic, Stalin might well have let the revolt be supported and damn the cost

    As it turned out, mistrust of the Soviets by the Polish people and politicians had caused yet another tragedy in a long list of tragedies for Poland during WW2.

    Warsaw, probably the most architechturally beautiful city in Europe, was just a pile of rubble, over 95% destroyed.

    RIP Warsaw....RIP Democratic Poland until Solidarity and Lech Walenski
     
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  16. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Never heard or read about any of the proceedings you mentioned. Most interesting and informative to say the least. Appreciate the lesson.
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    In the US we're moving certain monuments.
     
  18. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    No, it wasn't "mistrust of the Soviets by the Polish people and politicians."
    The Soviets were the aggressors, the USSR an evil empire the world hadn't seen before.

    The Soviets invaded Poland in 1919 and Poland survived only thanks to a sheer miracle.
    Then for a decade, they tried to destabilize Poland by infiltrating her Eastern Borderlands - trying to trigger a revolution there.

    In 1938, they killed over 100,000 Poles during a genocide called the Polish Operation of the NKVD.
    Then, together with the Nazis, invaded Poland, ending any hope of Polish resistance in the so-called Romanian Bridgehead.

    In 1940 the Soviets, in cooperation with the Nazis, initiated a cultural genocide against "their" Polish population, killing hundreds of thousands, imprisoning even more, deporting to Siberia more than a million.

    As Hitler invaded the USSR, the fleeing Soviets murdered about 100,000 of their political prisoners, many of them were Poles - leaving huge smoldering piles of bodies behind, during the so-called NKVD prisoner massacres.

    The Warsaw Uprising wasn't actually against the Nazis because obviously the Nazis were defeated at that time.
    It was an uprising against the Soviets, a last desperate attempt to regain independence before the Soviets would be able to enslave Poland (forever - as it was assumed then.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  19. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    It's true that initially, Rokossovski went into retreat but he quickly returned and for a month stood idle on the other side of the river doing nothing.
    The Soviets didn't even provide air cover for the Uprising, forbade the Allies from supplying it by air from Italy.
    Any Polish fighter they could have found was executed, deported to Siberia, or forcibly drafted into their Army.
     

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