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Do Women Make Better Soldiers Than Men?

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Volga Boatman, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    As an advocate of equality for women, this question has always intrigued me.

    We all know of the Russian experience. The Soviets used their women in a variety of different roles. But, in the west, we are still hamstrung by tradition to seriously consider large scale recriutment of girls, especially into their own units.

    With the case for their inclusion, I would list several factors in their favour to suggest that women will, in time, make far a far better miltary unit(s)...the case for includes...

    1/ The obvious higher pain thresholds. This is not common to all women, but the ones that are blessed with this attribute, (like my Maori wife), could concievably continue to operate despite injury. She would not cry out if wounded and give away her position. She would be more effective when a wound comes along, enabling more time between wounding and treatment, lowering casualty rates.

    2/ Women's sence of sisterhood to other members of their sex would mean that their units would be less likely to surrender, and more likely to come to eachother's aid in a tight spot.

    3/ Ferocity; Every man knows the ferocity of an angry woman. Just threaten her family or her baby and see what happens. With their greater sense of family unity, women of countries that were the victims of aggression would rise to the national call with far more ferocity and committment than the average Joe, (One remembers one of Spike Milligan's artillery unit claiming that he volunteered, saying "anything to get away from the bleedin' wife..."


    These are my thoughts. Wonder what the rest of the Rogues believe. We, in the West, are on the threshold of discovering exactly what women soldiers, sailors and airmen can achieve in straight combat roles....

    What do you all think? :trouble:
     
  2. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Well the first official uniformed...not soe or spy or resistance heroine etc recorded by British army that killed an enemy by rifle fire in action was as late as Afghanistan...She was a British army medic...She was not protecting any wounded colleagues..she was not returning fire, although fire had been opened on her other colleagues...She shot and killed. Bit concerning for a medic...I'd hate to be the next medic along..although I'm aware the Taliban do not differentiate..still a bit disconcerning...she has no problem in describing or living with killing. I'd personally state no difference now...we used to have a perception of should they, would they, could they, should we worry about them ...they don't seem worried themselves...I'd say no difference...the nurture before lurcher brigade may say no, but it seems western society has moved on. Especially British, which does differ from USA and Isreal before I get the we've done it for years comments. We have not. I did though have this discussion....argument with a wraf once in a bar....she got uptight as women do...clem..put that pistol down mamma.put that pistol down....she obviously could not understand my 12 pint of lager reasonning and well thought out arguments on you'd only get in the way...we'd all die protecting you sort of thing...well thought out I thought...intelligent...friendly discussion...she looked as if she was going to hit me as British uniformed ladies sometimes did in my day...and just rolled her tongue stating that given 5 minutes alone she could kill any man...I shrank...and made friends with a burly big bloke balancing on his stool a few yards away....women eh...bless em...arm em? They've been armed for years...and not with guns...
     
  3. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Your'e a rogue through and through!

    I loove the line "12 pint reasoning..."

    My wife suffers from "Righteous indignation reasoning"....what was that honey? No, I'm not trashing your reputation....honey...don't....put that DOWN....
     
  4. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    I remember in my school days the "poitical" arguments, often degenerated to free for all melees, but the only really dangerous ones were those with "the girls" present (the Spannish pasionaria couldn't hold a candle to some of them), IMO males have hard wired "I made my point/I give up" signals built in that cease to function when the gentler sex gets involved.
    For ground troops I wouldn't recomend it uless they accepted some very unpleasant screening, still recal, after 30 years, a cross country treck where we were stuck for 24 hours with just the water in our canteens (and "Med in summer" temperatures) because one of the girls got "her period" and couldn't walk, on the other hand some of the other girls in our goup could walk me into the ground without even pulling up a sweat.
     
  5. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    For gods sakes TOS.....you daft old bugger....you have just mentioned the one thng we all try not to mention....Head for the hills....Clem....I apologise for the well meant TOS...you have to understand the Spanish blood...As male members of this forum...we totally disown him and any statement he may make on this period..Oh my god..I just said it....Head for the hills...don't forget the kids....take the dog...move man move....
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I've fought men and women, and the women seemed to have something to prove, they just tried harder to kill me. So I learned to shoot them first.
     
  7. Fury 1991

    Fury 1991 New Member

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    Not even close as far as the qualities that make up a combat soldier. They are physically weak and the Lord only knows they can not shoot. Some of you are speaking of some of the very rare exceptions.
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    As a CPO I always tried to match the man to the job. Not everybody can hump 120 pounds of gear through the boonies. The best tunnel rats were little guys, 140 pounds soaking wet. They could get places that I never could.

    As for the women, like I said, they wanted to be there. That made them dangerous. And I really wish they had been much, much rarer, shooting anybody is no fun, but shooting a woman kinda bent my brain for a while. (Maybe still bent, I'm not the one to judge.)
     
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  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    As long as they can meet the same physical standards, I'm good to go, for the most part. Having said that, in nearly 20 years in the volunteer fire service, I've yet to see a female with enough strength to raise a 24' extension laddder solo.
     
  10. Clementine

    Clementine Member

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    I've always been a firm believer that people can do whatever THEY can do, and should be allowed to do it, if they are able, whatever sex they are. There is no denying that women are, generally, not as strong as men. But I see women who are tougher than some guys I know.

    I worked in the telecommunications industry and one of our female office workers wanted to move out into the field, and the company resisted at first but really didn't have a legitimate reason not to let her transfer when an opening came up. She could heft those extension ladders around better than most of the guys.

    One of my best friends works road construction and she raises Clydesdales and she has helped her family farm all of her life. She used to load a wagon with bales of hay for her horses after baling it, while her boyfriend sat on the tractor and watched. I guarantee she'd be able to best lots of men at most any task.

    I'd bet both of these women would have made fine soldiers had they chosen that path.

    There's no denying whether a person is physically able to do something or not, you are or you aren't, but I don't get the not being able to shoot - you mean just in general or in a combat situation?
     
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  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    When I hear talk about physical strength I remember the flagpole scene in "Captain America".
     
  12. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    Server ate my post .... possibly a good thing in this case ... anyway the best shot I ever met (small game hunting) is female.
     
  13. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    I'd take a trip to Bisley if I was you matey.

    Sorry I'm editing this...it sound a trifle challenging when I read it back..sorry mate didn't mean it to...What I should have said is that from my experience and I've never been a front line infantry soldier..but I have seen women shooters in the military over my career and shared many a range with them. As a marksman myself at the time. I was more than happy to be beaten by the female next to me. That as you say does not mean they will kill or whatever..but as to shooting they can hit a barn door better than many a man I've shot next to...I'm fed up with having 7.62's hitting me because some daft bloke can't handle the thing and I'm still baffled on one occasion getting my crossed rifles again by getting a 64 rounds in a grouping when I only fired 3 mags of 20. Thanks Chris...I was having a bad day and nearly faile qualification that once....My issue is not with females being able to kill..I'm still against that in the military unless self defence...and I'm certainly not happy with medics firing when not fired upon be they male or female...But as to whether a female can shoot...my experience is they most certainly can. The numbers doing so are small in the UK, but this is due to the fraction on females to males in the British armed forces thru history. If yank females cannot shoot I have no issue with you stating such. Seems reasonable...sorry Clem..I wear a big RAF roundel on my back if anyone wants a target...
     
  14. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    I don't know about the ladder bit Slip..I only did emergency fire fighting for a few months during a firemens strike over here...I don't envy anyone that job...But its quite the norm to have a fireman of the female variety over here. I don't know about the ladder bit though...Does the states have female fire fighters..You'd surprise me if you said no...
     
  15. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    she has helped her family farm all of her life....clem...my wife is a farmers daughter...we have a sheep holding...we do sheep...she does em I hold the line...What did you want dear....From the military into civilian telecoms ind...then into farming...I can state I have never met a bunch of physically stronger and more do it and go for it people than women and girls on farms...That does not mean they will kill with a weapon..but the ones I know kill regularly without hesitation with shotguns of many types...as for dirty work...I'd prefer a girl in the mud next to me these days than a moaning bloke. If that upsets blokes tough...Because thats what I have come to know of late..tough girls...who can build a bridge with a piece of string and see an opening in a field better than any engineer or recce guy with a joystick on a uav.
     
  16. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    You yer bugger...yer barred.....
     
  17. scipio

    scipio Member

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    That is surely right. The Israeli Defence Force uses women soldiers as snipers but not in a combat role having experimented with the concept.

    The problem they found is not that woman soldier can't hold her own but its the effect that an injured woman soldier has on the males - too tempted to protect her at the expense of accomplishing the mission.

    And lets face it - it is serious enough for a male soldier being captured but a woman!


    Maybe in some societies, it can be done but I can't see it working inWestern Armies
     
  18. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Remember the woman who was captured during the first Gulf War?
     
  19. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    My little sister was the second female to make the San Antonio F.D. and only second because her last name started with "W" instead of "S". She stayed on until retirement, drove every vehicle you can imagine, ran ladder and hose companies, was the first female to make Lt. and the first female to command her own precinct before retiring with twenty two years in. She didn't do bad, and since she was a Montana farm girl who had spent her life slinging hay bales and wrestling calves she beat out 78 male applicants in physical ability. Bodeil Wigen/Burke if you are interested.

    She is still a lady and a mother now three times over. If your want a loss of teeth insult the girl, her left jab is still there at her mid-fifties.
     
  20. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    I am of Spanish blood and understand the cultural implications that one faces when the subject and nature of the equality of men and women comes up. It took a special effort on my part to get clear of those impulses and realize that in every way men and women have their equality that must be respected. It is a two way street and once our society understands this....we will be an even better society. All of us know that our recent enemies do not treat women equally in their area of the world that once had this great influence on Northern Spain which may be the source of my cultural Spanish Blood influence. I will just say if you do not think it is important then I want you to consider where the Arabic numeral math systems came from that got us to the moon. The people that invented it did not prosper to the extent that those who adopted its use did and I submit the rise of the civilization that we experienced success with had a greater respect for the equality of women at least in a comparitive sense. I would say that is a reason we were able to use the calculations to accomplish what could not be done in the original civilization that created the high calculations. If 52% of our population is to be kept ignorant and only used as home labor it is going to prevent families from developing the smartest children they can. It takes no great understanding to see how that would hold back the possibilities of a better future for everyone. A woman with an education can take her child more quickly and readily to higher levels before organized instruction begins and women are usually every child's first teacher.
     
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