Does everyone share these thoughts?

I feel that the Korean War and Vietnam Veterans are the most left out people in our respective countries. They may have fought wars that the majority of society didn't support, but that doesn't make their cause just.
America lost 58, 198 men in Vietnam and Ausrtalia lost 496-these men died to protect us from a political system that promotes evil.
We should be eternally grateful to these men, who's with me on this one guys????

 

I agree, It is the politicians who decide to wage war and sent soldiers in to fight. I feel that our soldiers in any theatre or conflict derserve our gratitude, regardless off any moral justification or lack thereof of the political descision to wage a certain war.

Let me only refer to the Screbenica affair in Bosnia, 1995, where Dutchbat (450 men armed with only their dimaco's C7's) where to protect the muslim population and failed to do so due to many reasons. Their fault? Many people (media included) thought so, but the facts as they turn out now, show a different picture. It was the politicans who sent those guys into a situation which was unmanagable once the Serbs really started their push for the enclave. In short; I feel they got the blame (like so many others before them) for the failings of the politicians. I know some of these guys and the frustration about what happened then and afterwards still runs deep.

I can't speak about Vietnam. As far as I know no Dutchmen fought there, but the Dutch left 117 (or so) soldiers in Korea. And I can tell you that the vast majority of the Dutch population doesn't have a clue about what happened there, what they did in Korea or why.

 

Thankyou Stevin-see how ignorant we are of teh Korean War-i dont even know the casualty figures

 

My step father was in Korea, and spent some time as a guest of the Chinese. Not a very pleasent time at that i believe. But you are right, we know little about these wars, Korea in particular. I don't know how it is in the US, but the Pacific campaign of WW2 is little known about in the UK.

The events in Bosnia at that time are a disgrace, all of the UNs making. It is a shame that Dutch troops get the blame. I know guys that were in Bos at the time of the switch from UN to IFOR. All of a sudden, there hands were untied and they could act. I have alot of respect for the Dutch that i have seen and worked with in Bos. A good bunch of guys.

 

Indeed, the pacific campaign is little known here too. Aks anybody about the Java Sea Battle and you will draw blanks with most people. Sad.

Bish, thanks for your kind words on the Dutch. The Dutch army recently changed their recruitment policy/requirements which allowed me to seek re-enlistment, which I am doing now. Hope they will have me back. I am tired of sitting behind my desk, reading about what is going on in this world and letting others pick the coals out of the fire (?). I have been corresponding with veterans for many years. And like a US Colonel England wrote me when I asked him for his WW2 experiences: "Young man, the only way to find out what it is like, I suggest you join your country's armed forces." That's all he wrote. And I guess he is right.

 

sorry, double post

[ 29 April 2002, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

 

I agree with you guys 100%. The Korean War sadly is known more aqs the Forgotten War. I KNOW that the Korean War and the Vietnam War--the vets who still live, and the men and women who died--will never be forgotten by us here.

 

Can we already view these wars with the same sort of objectivity that we can view WW2? Don't Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese veterans deserve the same form of respect in our eyes as we give to American, Australian or others?

After all, the situation is much the same. The soldiers believed they were fighting for freedom, for liberty and for life. It was the politician's fault that they were not.

It's the same in all wars. The guy with the rifle on the other side is just in the same sort of shit as you are. With the same convictions and the same risk. Usually anyway.

 

Andreas--I dont know if we can view these wars the same as how we all view ww2. They were two very diffenent kinds of war. I mean--ww2--had almost 100% of the populations behind their goverments and in wanting to go full force in winning the war by whatever means.

The Korean War--we had probably 75% of the populations backing their goverments in the war effort. However--the Vietnam war effort never peaked 65% in backing from the population.

WW2, the public thought--"We need to get in and do what we can to win this war" My father--a WW2, Korean and Vietnam vet, lived through each conflict. I remember him talking about his experiances in each conflict. In WW2, no-one dared to be non patriotic--if they were so inclined to be. Everyone backed everything for the most part. A man or Woman in uniform--at least here in the USA, were all very well respected, and always well treated (except for a sad fact that is in this countrys past)

Korean War-the public thought: "OK, Lets go and get this thing overwith"

Vietnam War-the public thought: "(sigh) Here we go again, lets see how long this one lasts"

You can see the differences in the public attitudes for the 3 wars.

I was old enough to remember alot of things that went on in the very late 1960s to the end of the Vietnam War. I remember the fight for the "Hamburger Hill battles. The heaviest day of fighting was on my 2nd birthday. I actually do remember seeing news footage on TV. I also remember when the NVA tried to storm the US Embassy. I remember the MPs firing their M-16s over a stone wall while some damn reporter from CBS, was trying to interview them as they were fighting. I remember that one of the G.I.s got tired of asking the reporter to go elsewhere, and he used some "colorful" language and pushed the reporter away from him (the reporter was dan rather.

I also remember our forces general withdrawell which I think started in 1972. I distinctly remember the fall of Siagon, the evacuations from the Embassy and airbases, the Viet civilians who were lucky to make it on an aircraft, the unloading of these people on US Aircraft Carriers, and as there was not enough room to keep them, I also remember seeing many US Aircraft--Helocopters being pushed over the sides of the Carriers in order to make room for more people. I also remember the name of the last US serviceman who was killed in Vietnam. He was a Marine Corporal named McMahon.

Not bad for someone who has a bad memory

 

Stevin, Canada was meant to do the same thing when they went to Bosnia, light weapons only. However the officer commanding, a fairly exceptional officer named Lewis MacKenzie disobeyed orders and took the heavy weapons anyway. when the shooting started and the senior staff wanted to know where the heavy support weapons came from he simply said "my bad" and there was nothing they could do as no Canadians came home in body bags. However most officers would not risk their careers like that.
Personally it is my belief it is ridiculous for the UN to be sending peacekeepers into harms way with means to adequetely defend either themselves or the people they are sent there to protect.

 

VERY interesting point. He definately was a brave man (and one with fore-sight) to bring his heavy weapons and to put his carrer in jeopardy like that. One of the things that, in retrospect, is being blamed on the Dutch Government is that they didn't consult with the Canadians about the situation. If anything, they knew what the situation was. But the Dutch were sent in without any heavy weapons and with a lot of 'nice' thoughts that didn't help them out in the end. But the Dutch Col. in charge recieved a lot of flak for the way he handled the situation and for not insisting on bringing heavy equipment when he knew that the enclave was undefendable once the Serbs really started theri attack. I guess the Dutch truly believed they would get the air support once they needed it.

 

WHEN WW2 ENDED, RUSSIA CONTROLLED THE TOP HALF OF KOREA, THE AMERICANS, THE LOWER HALF. BOTH SIDES AGREED TO STOP AT THE 38TH PARALELL.(SO THEY WOULD NOT FIGHT EACH OTHER.) THE AMERICANS SET UP AN INDEPENDANT GOVERNMENT IN THE SOUTH....THE RUSSIANS A COMMUNIST ONE...THUS THE STAGE WAS SET FOR WHAT HAD TO BE. I DONT BLAME THE POLITITANS...IT WAS A QUESTION OF STOPING THE SPREAD OF COMMUNISUM. IT HAD ALLREADY TAKEN OVER RUSSIA AND CHINA, NOW THEY WANTED KOREA. THE DEMOCRACEYS SAID YOU CANT HAVE IT. WE STOPED THEM. 54,000 + AMERICANS DIED, WITH 8,000 STILL MISSING. I DONT KNOW THE FIGGURES FOR THE OTHER UNITED NATIONS COUNTRYS.....VIET NAM WAS THE SAME. IT WAS FOUGHT TO STOP THE SPREAD OF COMMUNISUM.I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT IDEAS HERE.WHEN THE RUSSIANS AND THE CHINESE WON THEIR REVOLOUTION, THEY KILLED MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE. THAT TELLS ME , THAT THEIR OWN PEOPLE DID NOT WANT THEIR SYSTEM, BUT IT WS FORSED ON THEM. IT WAS LIKE THE JAPANESE AND THE GERMANS ALL OVER AGAIN. I DONT BELIVE THE FREE COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD HAD MUCH CHOISE BUT TO STOP IT WITH WAR.I THINK THE DOUMBEST STATEMENT MADE BY MAN IS "NOBODY EVER WINS IN WAR"......OF COURSE THEY DO, AND IM GLAD WE MADE THE EFFERT TO STOP THE SPREAD OF THIS EVIL...BUT IT AINT OVER YET.