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DU shells versus chobam armor?

Discussion in 'Post-World War 2 Armour' started by liang, Sep 26, 2004.

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  1. liang

    liang New Member

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    It's said that the DU round fired from the Abrams and Challegers can penetrate practicaly any existing armor. On the other hand, the chobham armor on those tanks were claimed to be impervious to any anti-tank rounds. Which leads to a sensible question, what will the results be if these tanks fire on each other?
     
  2. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    It has happened - a close-range 'friendly-fire' incident in Gulf War 2, where a Challenger fired on another Challenger.
    Not sure if the armour was penetrated, but the turret was completely knocked off the tank...
     
  3. Zable Fahr

    Zable Fahr New Member

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    who needs armor penetration when you knock off the turret...

    were there any casualties?
     
  4. GP

    GP New Member

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    Depends on the distance between the tanks, The Chally has a rifled barrel and can engage at a greater distance. Chobham can only take a few hits from any type of round that is why it is bolt on. So if the Chally engages first and scores several hits accurately then bye bye Abrams. At closer ranges it would depend on the skill of the crews.

    IMHO
     
  5. PanzerProfile

    PanzerProfile New Member

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    A little question before we move on... What does DU stand for?
     
  6. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    Depleted Uranium.

    Basically a very dense, heavy metal.

    Doesn't the M1A1 Abrams have DU armour on the glacis?
     
  7. liang

    liang New Member

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    Holly ----, decapitating the Abram? That's incredible, I guess the Abram was not as "invincible" as I thought. Was the Abram's turret covered with chobham armor as well?
     
  8. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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  9. PanzerProfile

    PanzerProfile New Member

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    Killed by friendly fire in these modern times.. it hardly seemed possible but here we are...
     
  10. GP

    GP New Member

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    It happens on a regular basis, especially where America is involved.


    LOL
     
  11. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Yeah amazing how for American A10's British vehicles seem to bare an amazing resemblance to the vehicles of whoever the enemy is.
     
  12. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, when churning along at 500mph (or however fast it goes) it is quite hard to positively ID vehicles.

    The Americans do seem to have a propensity for pulling triggers at any given opportunity. During WW2 I believe that the American TAC Air planes were referred to as 'Patton's Luftwaffe'...
    I read somewhere that the US deliberately trains their servicemen to be aggressive - 'shoot first, think later'. While this is often a good thing against the enemy, it has 2 bad points:

    1) increased friendly fire incidents
    2) makes it very hard for your poor troops to engage properly in 'peacekeeping' missions - especially where 'hearts & minds' are at stake. (notice any topical issues here?)

    Of course, the thing I read could be wrong. We have US servicemen on this board (and their peers elsewhere). What do they say?
     
  13. GP

    GP New Member

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    The A10 only does 300 mph but the reason that the warriors in the 1991 gulf was due to the pilots remained above 15000 ft, although the AAA threat had been removed. If they had the bottle to go to 10000 then they would have been able to itentify the targets. Also tey used Mavericks with cameras in the nose.
     
  14. GP

    GP New Member

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    I have, however, seen the video footage of an apache commander who wanted to go forward and kill some thing tried to destroy two (M113 I believe) but was 24 km form his start point, he ignored all the warnings and was making the comments gee anything in there is dead now. When he saw to people warking away he tried to shoot with his cannon which jammed, then he was told they were friendly and was a little upset.
     
  15. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    American strategic bombers, having failed to locate their targets over Germany, instead bombed the Belgian town of Malmédy three times - and all that time American troops were stationed there. :-?
     
  16. trackpin

    trackpin New Member

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    Old ww2 joke (British)
    "When the Luftwaffe were bombing, the British went into the Bunkers"
    "When the British were bombing, the Germans went into the Bunkers"
    "When the Americans were bombing, every body went into the Bunkers"
     
  17. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    When you actually have a considerable amount of forces present, and these forces are aggressieve (i.e. not retreating), friendly fire incidents are almost inevitable. The amount of friendly fire incidents is far lower now than in previous wars. I'd much rather have aggressive pilots and deal individually with any of them who screw up, than to have pilots hesitating too long to take action and get people killed by enemy fire. It's just like amphibious landings. I'd much rather keep the bombardment going right up until the ramps go down and chance a few short rounds causing casualties than to stop 20-30 minutes before and let the troops deal with the enemy when they come out of their holes.
     
  18. liang

    liang New Member

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    Isn't that an unfortunate oxymoron: friendly fire? And I thought that being shot at is always unfriendly.
    The worst case scenario would be if the B-52 start carpet-bombing their own ground troops, can you imagine the carnage it will wreak upon the unsuspected "friendlies"? I believe a similar incidence happened in WWII during the Normandy breakout, when advancing allied lines were devasted by their own heavy bombers.
     
  19. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    I believe that during the period between the D Day landings and the break out the Americans did attempt at lease once to carpet bomb the Germans out of a position and unfortuniately at least some bombs fell short onto American troops.
     
  20. trackpin

    trackpin New Member

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    If you are ever in a position to read Regimental/Squadron War Diaries
    you will find many reports of "friendly Fire" incidents, not reported in the media.
    I know of the 1st.K.D.G. being shot up by a spitfire in the winter of 45 in Greece, this was after being moved from the Italian front to aid the Greek Government in the fight against the Rebel forces there.
    Also of British Glider Airborne troops drowned two miles off Sicily after being released by panicky pilots when firing began, you can't swim two miles with full kit on!
     
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