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Earliest APCs?

Discussion in 'Pre-World War 2 Armour' started by Ricky, May 26, 2006.

  1. Ricky

    Ricky Active Member

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    I really have no idea about this - were the German SdKfz 251's the first APCs out there?

    I realise that this could generate discussion on what an APC actually is... :wink:
     
  2. Anonymous

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    Wasn't there a troop-carrying variant of the Mark 1 tank?
     
  3. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Errr, that was me. I didn't know it would let me post without logging in.... never done it before.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky Active Member

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    I can't find anything on an APC version of the MkI, but...

    The MkV tank (designed in October 1917 and entering service in mid-1918) "had a new 6' section introduced into the hull to improve trench-crossing capability and provide extra internal space for a squad of infantry. From mid-1918, the tank saw action with the British and Americans. The United Stated used these special tanks in the 301st Tank Battalion, who were using British equipment and were under British control. The reason for the space was to make space for a squad of soldiers. Sadly, ventilation was nil and as a result the infantry were unfit to fight when they left the compartment. As a result, they ended up the war carrying supplies."

    [​IMG]

    The MkIX
    "If the Mark VIII was the most beautiful of the rhomboids, this tank would qualify as the most ugly. Designed to be a infantry supply vehicle rather than a fighting machine in September 1917. The vehicle was large enough to carry 50 men or 10 tons of equipment. The cargo space was 3' 6" x 5' 5". Plans for 200 were called for buy only 23 were ever made. The machine had large side doors but was very underpowered. In 1919, one Pig was made amphibious (called The Duck) by adding a raised cab, flotation devices (naval camels), and a modified exhaust. Propulsion was provided by a motor at the rear and paddles (flaps) attached at various intervals on the tracks."

    [​IMG]

    (text and pictures for both from http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/ )

    It does not say whether either were actuall used operationally, and neither is really an APC (the MkV could be described as an IFV, but the MkIX is simply a re-supply vehicle)
     
  5. Ricky

    Ricky Active Member

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    According to Wikipedia (yes, I know :roll: ) the MkIX was designed as an APC - and could also be used as a transport.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_IX_tank

    Which would make it the first 'true' APC.

    But then we have the problem, define 'APC'.

    For example, it could be argued that the RAM Kangaroo was the first real APC to see combat, as it was the first all-tracked APC capable of carrying a full squad of infantry. Previous examples were all half-tracks, or smaller vehicles.
     
  6. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    In that case, how about the LVT-1 Buffalo? Wouldn't it precede the RAM Kangaroo?

    Tim
     
  7. Ricky

    Ricky Active Member

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    Ohhh, good call!

    Although wasn't that more of a 'get the troops to the beach' vehicle than a 'get the troops around the battlefield following the tanks' vehicle?
    (although obviously it could do both....)
     
  8. Anonymous

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    Were these armoured ?


    Aglooka
     
  9. Anonymous

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    the first instance i have heard of 'APC's' being used was in Russia during the 1905 revolution when armored cars were used to trasport police around petrograd... whether these are APC's is questionable, but i would have though that armored vehicles would also have been experimented with in the american civil war
     
  10. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    Aglooka:
    The early LVTs were armored, but quite thinly. Some would not stop a heavy machine-gun bullet.
    The later versions incorporated thicker--and more--armor. They were also armed with .30s and .50s, but each gunner was exposed to enemy-fire.

    Tim
     

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