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Eastwood:'America Has Gone Soft'

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Lias_Co_Pilot, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

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    Yes in Afghanistan violence is doing a great job.
    What's up with the "real men" issue?? Who is to define what a "real men" is?? An ill-educated brute whose answer to everything is violence is what we should aim for?? No thank you.
    And even if other cultures are laughing at western males, how about we become the "big men" in the room and let it slide?



    Cheers...
     
  2. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    That doesn't really square with a lot of what I've read recently. Indeed the Iraqis and Afghans seam to be pretty impressed by the quality of our soldiers. To the point where the Iraqi army is doing a pretty good imitation of them.
     
  3. RAM

    RAM Member

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    Tell that to the 9/11 victims.

    But you are still a young man Stefan, you still have many hard lessons to learn..:cool:

    RAM
     
  4. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    LWD, indeed, the same is true in Afghanistan, the Taliban seem pretty impressed by fighting ability of our troops too, not to mention the fierce arsenal they command. All we need now is to train the ANA a bit more and get the Italians to sort the justice system out and we'll be on track.

    Oh, sorry RAM, I take it youth is what allows me to see that not every Muslim in the world, much less 'the rest of the world' is against us.

    Come on, 9/11 wasn't about the decline of western manhood or anything like that, frankly it is rather offensive to turn one of the greatest tragedies of modern times into the culmination of some sort of 'big schlong' contest!

    Incidentally, that quote came from the review of the book you published, it isn't talking about international politics, simply male attitudes to the world and the negative affects of male uncertainty (notably, attacking things you take to be an enemy). I just found the level of paranoia in your post (which amounts to 'the rest of the world, particularly those pesky muslims, are laughing at my manhood') particularly well demonstrated the issues mentioned in the review. Hell, since when have 'real men' spent their time worrying about whether people on the other side of the planet were laughing at them?
     
  5. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Its the young men that we ask to sort out the mess of our own making. Nothing changes.

    Perhaps Eastwood should volunteer for a tour over there.

    Have you ever thought 9 11 may well have been carried out precisely becuase of some idiots perception and understanding of just what you aspire to.
     
  6. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    And live alone
     
  7. RAM

    RAM Member

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    I assume that by the term "idiots" you mean imbeciles, dropouts, convicts and losers in general.

    The guys performing the 9/11 attack were far from idiots. Highly motivated, dedicated islamists able to live undercover for years and get assimilated in a foreign society without being detected, learning to fly commercial airliners.

    They are backed by generous fundings to carry out a plan figured out by a mastermind, and they succeded.

    They hit the WTT, the symbol of our core western value which is money, not freedom.

    In our culture, money is the most essential value.
    What kind of freedom do you have if you don't have money?

    RAM
     
    C.Evans likes this.
  8. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Id call any suicidal fundamental of any belief an idiot. Motivation, dedication, religion wether islamist or catholic, living undercover and getting assimilation does not make you anyless an idiot.

    Hey going by that reckoning, you must believe our political betters are all of the genius genre.

    An idiot is an idiot proved by his or her actions and not their ability to deceive
     
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  9. RAM

    RAM Member

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    Dear Stefan, once I knew a guy that did exactly the same thing.
    To save money and time he read a couple of reviews in magazines and newpapers and felt he had read the book.

    I think I read the book in a different way that Ms. Faludi would have expected it to be read.
    That is because I have a quite different background than she has, and of course a quite different point of view. But you get an insight in what Clint Eastwood means with his statement.

    But read the book first, then we can discuss it..:)

    I'm not paranoid about muslims.
    On the contrary, I admire their staunch belief and their willingness to fight and die for what they believe in.

    If we look at western Europe we are turning more and more sissy, hardly any country, including my own, wants to send soldiers to conflicts and fight for European values, whatever that is today.
    May be it's nothing, that is why nobody wants to fight!

    Like the saying goes: "Europe fights to the last American!"

    RAM
     
  10. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Tell that to the Marines....the Royal Marines that is....11 in last few weeks...

    Which Europe do you live in then
     
  11. RAM

    RAM Member

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    I see!
     
  12. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Im glad you see...maybe next time you will see the amount of casualties some European nations are taking before you see fit to open your mouth on how we die to the last American...If you have a probelm with your own nations take up on serving in present theatres of operations, then take that up with your own folk and govt....Dont dare to dismiss the effort others are makingl, particularlyfrom this country..who happens to reside in Europe and is not dying to the last American.
     
  13. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

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    It's "sissy" not wanting to send young men to their deaths over some half justifiable excuse?? If so, I'm glad I live in a "sissy" country. And what "European values" do you stand for?? Those of France?? Germany?? Spain?? Portugal?? Moral and good values?? I don't know any country in the world who possesses purely selfless motives. So what are these called values you mention?? Who and what do they represent??



    Cheers...
     
  14. WotNoChad?

    WotNoChad? Member

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    I believe Eastwood is simply suffering from misty-eyed nostalgia, which will come to us all eventually. This nostalgia is rose-tinted, typically it always is.

    I'm already halfway there if I'm frank, the world I grew up in is long gone and I must admit I do miss it. Of course at the time I thought it was dreadfully dull and prissy.

    I was going to be cheeky about Europe, but it's getting a trifle heated so I'll steer clear of it, of course in the old days you could say what you wanted. ;)

    cheers,
     
  15. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Not really Chad, you wouldnt come on here and insult the memory of ww2 vets would you?

    I attended the funeral of Royal Marine from Northampton on Friday, along with many other ex service folk.

    I will not accept someone spouting off about ww2 European dead nor will I stand for similar things intoned about Europeans fighting to the last American in todays operations, not when our servicemen are being buried in such numbers over the Xmas period.
     
  16. WotNoChad?

    WotNoChad? Member

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    Quite right, I wouldn't.

    Cpl Marc Birch RIP.

    Nor should you accept it.

    Tbh I was just trying to lighten the tone, esp. as we're typically allies here. No disrespect intended, esp. as when I say "Europe" I don't include the UK.

    cheers,
     
  17. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    Sorry, didn't claim to have read the book, but according to one reviewer the book talks about people lashing out against people they percieve as enemies, simply thought that was an interesting take on things considering your comment.

    What, so you are saying you didn't understand the book? Then why did you post it as a source?

    So what is eastwood saying? That violence is the answer? That it is wrong and 'unmanly' for men to seek other solutions?

    Why? You just admitted you don't understand it.

    But you just said you think they are laughing at 'western manhood,' seems very paranoid to me. Whatever you respect about somebody it is pretty paranoid to think they are laughing at you.

    This I take issue with, of course people don't want to fight (sorry, are you saying we should 'want to fight'? Frankly that seems mental to me!) However many nations are making a genuine commitment to worthwhile military operations, Afghanistan being one. Those on here who know me are well aware of the fact that I'm not one for flag-waving and jingoism, however ISAF are making a very real effort in Afghanistan, a genuine commitment and are taking casualties in the name of freedom. You can talk about Europe being 'sissy' (if that is what you call 'looking for alternatives to bloodshed') but frankly the commitment being made belies that.

    All I can offer is this:

    Ministry of Defence | Fact Sheets | Operations Factsheets | Operations in Afghanistan: British Fatalities

    Frankly many nations in Europe are making sacrifices out of all proportion to their size, soldiers are working bloody hard (look at Estonia, who are sending troops out who work that hard and are of such quality that they are impressing British troops with their performance, god knows that is a tough job!).

    I hate to jump on this particular bandwagon but before you start shouting about how 'sissy' everyone is maybe you should think about what you are willing to sacrifice in a fight for somebody elses freedom in an end of the world that has never know peace. Your own life? Maybe your son or daughters? Frankly I can't blame the people of Europe for not wanting to fight!

    ED: Incidentally this lad lived down the road from me, I didn't know him but the comments of his mates seem, well, important:

    http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...oralStevenjamieFellowsKilledInAfghanistan.htm
     
  18. Hufflepuff

    Hufflepuff Semi-Frightening Mountain Goat

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    I would have to agree with Eastwood on this one.

    Example: Nowadays you can hardly have a war drama without ruining the plot with a corny romance side to the story (ex: Pearl Harbor).
     
  19. WotNoChad?

    WotNoChad? Member

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    Pearl Harbor? That's Star Wars Harbor in our house...
     
  20. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Those tiny goobered men who do these polls and write those books don't come to the South very much. For those of you outside the South, I suggest that you look up an alternate meaning for "goober" and it ain't a peanut!:eek:

    If you are going to try to sway us from across the Atlantic, you're going to have provide examples of manhood we are familiar with. Alan Quarterwho?:eek: If you want to invoke real manhood, you need to conjure up images of John Wayne, Buck Rogers or Tarzan.

    I really know who Alan Quatermain was, but he was goober.
     

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