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Enlisting and Entering?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by lynne sidaway, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. lynne sidaway

    lynne sidaway Member

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    Hi there, i have a query about a soldier.....

    The family are quite certain that he had to have an adult sign for him when he ENLISTED as in 1934 he was only 17 . In a newspaper report it states that he ENTERED military service in 1938.

    Is there or was there a difference with Enlisting and Entering or did the newspaper just get it wrong.

    Thanks
    Lynne
     
  2. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Probably just different ways of putting it, Lynne.
     
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  3. lynne sidaway

    lynne sidaway Member

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    I thought that might be the case. The story within the family is that he enlisted in 1934. The newspaper must have got the wrong year as they said 'entered military service' in 1938.
     
  4. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    I see it as enlisting to enter...
     
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  5. lynne sidaway

    lynne sidaway Member

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    Yes so do i. I'm sure the newspaper was given the wrong information.
    Thank you
     
  6. Carronade

    Carronade Ace Patron  

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    "Enter" seems like a generic term. Officers are commissioned, enlisted men, well, enlist, but they are both entering the service. There may be some other terms or processes for warrant officers and the like.
     
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  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Did he go to college or a technical school after enlisting?

    Often there was a delay between enlisting and actually entering into the service. Usually, this was some months, but sometimes longer. Often, there was not space to allow the enlistee to enter immediately. Other times it was to allow the enlistee to finish schooling.

    4 years does seem to be a long time between enlistment and entering the service, unless he finished a 4-year college.
     
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  8. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Although, if one noses around in the USN register of officers, especially ensigns, one can fine great long lists of ensigns and even lieutenant (jg)s directly commissioned from previous enlisted status and their "Date of Entry" is with a couple of days of their date of rank as in their commission. I'd have to shuffle back through my lists of NAPs to figure out when someone first entered service, or, at best, when designated an NAP to see how long someone was enlisted before commissioning.

    A task of many hours.
     
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  9. lynne sidaway

    lynne sidaway Member

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    His family inderstand that he enlisted at the age of 17 in 1934. (his sister signed for him as he was underage). The newspaper said he ENTERED the military in 1938. I am pretty sure that the newspaper simply got it wrong.
     
  10. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    And just prove it can be done, consider one Matthias John Vopatek Jr.

    The first place I can find him is a 30 December 1939 muster roll the submarine USS Nautilus (SS-168), received for duty on 6 April 1939 as an RM2c. Fortunately the yeoman was paying attention and filled out the form completely as it provides us with his last (and what appears to be, first) enlistment date, 13 October 1934.

    Somewhat later, 19 August 1941, he was an RM1c and reporting to NAS Pensacola for the course of instruction for Naval Aviation Pilots. He was designated an NAP on 2 February 1942, now a CRM (NAP). His rate changed from CRM (NAP) to ACRM (NAP) on 11 March 1942. The Navy standardized all the NAP ratings shortly thereafter and his rate changed from ACRM (NAP) to CAP - Chief Aviation Pilot.

    . . . leaving out his various travels with VP-63. . .

    Vopatek was promoted to LTJG on 15 May 1943 and the 1 July 1943 officers register show him entering service on that date, but this means commissioned service, not total service. Promoted to LT on 1 August 1944 . . . more travels and transfers . . . and at the end of the war he is assigned to NAS Quonset Point. He retired as a CDR in September 1964, so counting backwards, that would be 30 years service from an original enlistment in October 1934.

    If one just ran across him in an officer's register you would only see the 15 May 1943 as his date of service entry despite his continuous enlisted service until then since October 1934.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020 at 1:42 PM
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  11. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. My experience with the Army Register of Officers is that they record first entry into service, whether it was as enlisted, direct commission out of college, or entry to West Point. I wonder why the Navy did not do the same? Just to make life harder for us? :D:D
     
  12. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Oh yes, the Army Register tells you a whole lot more, though you do have a pretty good idea what you are reading . . . here's my grandfather from the 1933 Army Register

    Leonard, Charles F. (01227). B—Mass. 30 Apr. 75. A—Army. G. S. C. Eligible List. Grad.: Inf.-Cav.Sch. 04, Army Sig. Sch. 10, Inf. Sch., Advanced Course, 24.
    Pvt. Co. K 1 D.C. Inf. 16 May 98 to 20 Nov. 98; It. col. Sig. C. N.A. 11 May 18; accepted 14 June 18; hon. dis. 21 Jan. 20.—Pvt. and corp. Co. K 21 Inf. 18 Feb. 99 to 17 Aug. 00; 21t. of Inf. 14 Aug. 00; accepted 18 Aug. 00; 1Lt. 28 Jan. 04; Sig. C. 17 Sept. 11 to 2 Dec. 12; capt. 2 July 14; maj. (temp.) 5 Aug. 17; Sig. C. 10 Dec. 17; vacated maj. (temp.) 14 June 18; reld Sig. C. 9 Dec. 18; It. col. 1 July 20; col. 20 May 30.

    He retired in 1934.

    Compare to my father's entry in the 1968 USN register, page 2, block 7
    Actually it goes across the page, but that won’t work here, so I show it down the page
    Lineal number- 214
    Sub Number - 00
    Name – Leonard, William Nicholas
    Source Code - 01
    Service Date - 38
    Designator - 1310
    Date of Present Rank – 08 10 65
    Date of Birth – 01 12 16
    Med & Dec - 2
    Special Qualifications – A 01 B C 01 D E
    Pay Entry Base Date 06 02 38

    It's cryptic, you have to know how to read it, doesn't give a whole lot on past details. He retired in 1971

    Always thought the Army Register was perhaps a little more generous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020 at 2:14 PM

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