The CVEs (which stood for Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable according to their crews) were the workhorses of the Allied navies, and did much to defeat the German U-boat menace and make possible both the amphibious landings and carrier offensive in the Pacific. They are largely unsung now, the limelight taken by the fleet and light carriers. So here is an oppurtunity to discuss these simple yet marvelous ships which did so much to win the war at sea.
This is the sort of vessel the Germans should have built c1937 if they wanted to get a carrier program underway, as per the other discussion. Even with this proper first step, though, it's hard to say if the program would have borne fruit in time for WWII, harder still to ientify a useful role for German carriers in a war against Britain. ASW patrol? The Germans were surprisingly poor at killing subs.
Even if the Germans wanted to if you check their production time tables they were hurting for money and materials. They had planned for war production levels by about 1943 .They couldnt have produced any more than they did in 1939 without cutting other programs which by internal party battles wasnt possible.Remember until Speer came along it was a case of too many conflicting programs after too little resources.
I have always been amazed at just how versatile and utalitarian these ships were, especially given their humble origins. They performed so many vital tasks for the navies they served in, many of them mundane, yet got little or no credit for it. And there is not one single, solitary escort carrier preserved anywhere as a museum, AFAIK. That is a total disgrace, IMHO.
The first escort carrier, HMS AUDACITY, was, ironically enough, converted from a captured German banana boat. She carried six Grumman Wildcats IIRC, and did excellent work screening Arctic convoys from German bombers. Her career was brief (she was sunk by a U-boat), but she lasted long enough to prove the soundness of the escort carrier concept.
Long Island was completed a matter of days before Audacity, but she was initially an aircraft transport vessel (by designation, anyway).
You're right. I should have said that AUDACITY was the first escort carrier to see combat. Thinking of her reminds me of the surprisingly low numbers of these ships that were sunk by submarines, given that one of their primary missions was ASW and that they were hideously vulnerable to damage compared to most warships. As best as I can remember, only three were killed by subs: AUDACITY, BLOCK ISLAND, LISCOMBE BAY. If there are any I have overlooked, please correct me.
The irony is that the Japanese lost several of their CVEs to submarine attack. But they weren't used as ASW ships on the Allied model.
No, they weren't, which was bloody stupid of the IJN high command. The presence of Japanese aircraft over their convoys would have made life much more difficult for the American subs.
And speaking of the Escort Carriers, who can forget the Taffy Task Forces, covering the Leyte Landings, fighting so intensely that the Japanese Admiral lost his nerve and turned the Yamato around just when his mission could have been a success (of sorts). Destroyer Escorts and Escort Carriers against the Yamato, amazing.
The Battle off Samar was certainly an epic event, but I wouldn't say the Japanese admiral lost his nerve. He had very specific reasons for doing what he did, and his actions were wise. Not that any of it mattered to the Taffy sailors; all they knew or cared about was that the overwhelming enemy had miraculalously turned away.
Yep. As one Taffy sailor put it: "Dammit, boys, they're getting away!" In fairness to the Japanese admiral, Kurita, he had had an incredibly bad night and day before encountering the Taffies. His flagship, the heavy cruiser ATAGO, was torpedoed and sunk by an American submarine, transferring his flag to YAMATO after getting picked up out of the water. Then, Halsey's pilots sank YAMATO's sister ship MUSASHI and damaged several other vessels. I can certainly understand why he wasn't at his best off Samar!
I think you're presupposing Kurita made a mistake in breaking off at Samar. I would not agree with that.
He handled the entire battle abysmally. Signalling "General Chase" instead of keeping his ships together was his first mistake, and arguably the one that cost him any chance of wiping out the Taffies, especially when the Japanese ships continued to use armor piercing shells on the CVEs. These mostly passed right through the jeep carriers without exploding, which explains why only GAMBIER BAY was sunk. His order to disengage, it can be argued, was inevitable given the amount of damage his ships had sustained from both the Taffy planes and the DDs and DEs of the escort screen, not to mention the amount of disorganisation, chaos, and confusion his force found itself wrapped up in.
damage to Kuritas forces How much damage had his forces actually sustained from the Taffy planes given that the carriers were loaded out to support the landings rather than tackling ships?
Re: damage to Kuritas forces Three heavy crusiers sunk (Chokai, Suzuya, and Chickuma). Almost all the other Japanese ships, BBs Yamato, Nagato, Kongo and Haruna, CAs Haguro, Tone and Kumano, CLs Yahagi and Noshiro and 11 destroyers, were damaged to one degree or another. In exhange they had sunk one CVE, Gambier Bay, 2 DDs, Hoel and Johnston and one DE, Samuel B. Roberts. CVE Kalinin Bay was hit by 13 8" shells and was the only CVE hit by a BB, yet she survived the battle. The battle lasted from 0648 to 0921 when Japanese Admirial Kurita odered a general retirement and the CAs ceased fire. Max Speed for the US CVEs was 17.5 knots. The Japanese ships were capable of at least 28 knots. Later in the day CVE St Lo became the first Kamikaze victim. The three CVE groups involved, Task Unit 77.4.1 (Taffy 1; 4 CVE, 3 DD & 5 DE), TU77.4.2 (Taffy 2; 6 CVE, 3DD & 5 DE), & TU77.4.3 (Taffy 3; 6 CVE, 2 DD & 3 DE) had 16 CVEs with 290 fighters (Hellcat & Wildcat) and 183 Avenger torpedo planes. Most of the planes had already launched on other missions when the Japanese battle force appeared. Taffy 3 was the group engaged by the Japanese.
Re: damage to Kuritas forces Excellent post, canambridge!!! The attacks on Kurita's ships by the Taffy planes have passed into legend. Time and again, they hit the ships with weapons normally not used against surface vessels: 100 pound bombs, depth charges, rockets, you name it. Many pilots made dummy runs on the enemy when their ammo and ordnance was expended, to draw fire away from other pilots who were still armed and to further harass the Japanese.
