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Fukushima More Dangerous Than Chernobyl

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Poppy, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    They were in the military yes but I'm afraid things were a bit differently. Yes it I true that many, many people worked on the disaster, I was, however; referring to the very first wave of liquidators. Please remember that Chernobyl was worked on for years after the initial disaster. The first wave liquidators who worked in the nucleus (ground zero) were all volunteers and knew exactly what they were volunteering for. These men rushed in, virtually without any protective gear to speak of when comparing to the squads who came weeks, months and years later. Death was certain and all of these men knew it. It was this first wave that mapped everything along with a detailed description of what had occurred and what was needed. None who came afterwards (thousands) dealt with what the first waves had.

    It was these first responders who were shown on TV with the first images of the disaster. All perished and very quickly along with the pilots and the camera man on board helicopter. Those that worked outside ground zero and months after the initial disaster had a far better chance of survival.
     
  2. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Thank you for asking if i drive. ..Guessing you were trying to say driving was more dangerous than Fukushima.
    Backpedaling is acceptable, knowing how some refuse to ever accept that only allah is omnipotent.
    No, the alarm did not sound. It was suppressed.
     
  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I believe that the comment was a "two fer"...If the contamination is as bad as you say no matter where you go it will not help you and, as you have stated driving is more dangerous than Fukushima.

    What am I supposed to be backpedaling on?

    For the most part, the alarm was not suppressed, but there was a lot of conflicting data & reports, and TEPCO took an early conservative position until the data could be sorted out.
     
  4. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Thanks for entertaining my minimal thoughts.
    Looking for conversation.
    Robots can't even negotiate the current situation without dying.
    The contamination has to be a real concern.
     
  5. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Yes, the Soviets had this problem at Chernobyl too. That is why they went with "bio-robots"(the human liquidators). However, Japan does not have the luxury of using "bio-robots", and will have to focus on building more robust robots - which will take time and money(the expected costs of clean-up have already doubled in the 6 years since the accident.

    Still, the Japanese are probing further into unexplored areas of the reactors, and are encountering radiation levels higher than they expected - higher, I believe than even at Chernobyl's destroyed reactor. So, the costs and problems of cleaning up Fukushima are likely to go up.


    Contamination has always been a concern. But, the airborne fallout has been minimal, and most identified areas have been cleaned up as well as possible. The Japanese have begun to lift restrictions in certain areas, but, as would be expected, former residents are leery of returning to their former areas of residence.

    The main concern has been radioactive contamination of the water table and local ocean area. TEPCO has gone so far as to create an "ice wall" around the plant, but reports of it's effectiveness are mixed. While it has reduced groundwater contamination, it has not been as effective as first hoped.
     
  6. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Japan had their biobots. Watched a show on PBS which celebrated their efforts.
    Wonder if the Chernobyl guys sacrificed their lives more for the people/country than the Japanese guys did it out of duty to the company.

    While we are talking radiation- just perusing the net
    Story regarding finding of trace amounts of Iodine-131 in areas of Europe recently
    Tyler Durden- Zero Hedge Feb 19/17
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-19/concerns-grow-about-nuclear-incident-europe-after-spike-radioactive-iodine-levels
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Lots of speculation, but little substance in the comments section.

    Seems that they have forgotten about, or do not remember the I-131 release from a Hungarian facility back in 2011.
    http://bellona.org/news/nuclear-issues/accidents-and-incidents/2011-11-analysis-european-radiation-safety-agencies-detect-traces-of-iodine-131-in-air-source-of-leak-unknown
    https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/source-iodine-131-europe-identified

    It might take a while, but I am fairly certain that the source of the Iodine-131 will be discovered.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    What was the possible radioactive results of Three Mile island accident or was it called Harrisburg? 1979?
     
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Three Mile Island or, simply, TMI, is fine...Harrisburg was the closest city, but no one that I know of refers to the accident by that name.

    The possible radioactive results vary on the two main "worst case" scenarios: (1)The "hydrogen bubble" causes the reactor to explode or (2) The reactor fully melts down, the molten core escapes the containment building, and enters the water table.

    Concerning the "Hydrogen Bubble" causing the reactor to explode, was never a real possibility, but was the result of the stress and tension that the engineers and operators of TMI were under at the time. One of the engineers had gotten his calculations wrong, but with everything that was going on at the time...No one discovered his error until many hours later. So, while the hydrogen bubble was never a threat to the plant, the fear of a hydrogen explosion was quite real at the time. Now, had the reactor exploded, the result likely would have been very similar to Chernobyl, and possibly worse depending on which direction the wind was blowing.

    Concerning the meltdown into the water table, this could have caused several lethal outcomes. First, the ground water, and the Susquehanna River would have been polluted with radioactivity. Not just that, but the water would instantaneously flash into radioactive steam, and seek the easiest route into the atmosphere. So, now the atmosphere surrounding TMI will be highly contaminated with radioactivity.

    During the TMI accident, various nuclear experts examined the worst-case possibilities and came up with conflicting possibilities. Estimates ranged from 1,000s of Rads exposure, to 500 Rad exposure, down to a maximum 100 Rad exposure were predicted. The only thing that apparently was agreed upon was that such a worst case scenario would be a complete mess.
     
  10. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    #47
    "Seems that they have forgotten about, or do not remember the I-131 release from a Hungarian facility back in 2011."

    My reading comprehension is horrible...Thought the article said I-131 has a half life of 8 days.
    Wouldn't that preclude any events (Hungary-2011)- prior to 8 days before the finding

    This story is starting to get traction in the media.
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Half-life is how long it takes for the radioactive substance to decay by half.
    So, 8 days after the initial release of Iodine-131, 50% of the I-131 will remain. After 16 days, 25% will remain. After 24 days 12.5% will remain, After 32 days, 6.25% will remain, and so on down the line.

    Further, we do not know if it was a one-time release, or is it a small steady release like the Hungary 2011 incident(the release happened over a period of three months).
     
  12. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Could they tell by the samples how old the I131 was?
    They must be able to, otherwise why would they be making noise about it all of a sudden.
    Something must have happened...Wonder if some discarded waste in barrels had been crushed by ice. Or decayed after decades of sitting out there.
    ..The samples were air- so also wonder if crushed/decayed barrels could emit I131 high enough into the atmosphere as to be read by stations all over N Europe.
     
  13. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Maybe also read they could tell the I131 was the same stuff at each site...There must be something identifiable in it.
    Like how sand/lava/diamonds are able to be identified to their original location
     
  14. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru

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    Apparently over there in Japan, its so radiactive inside that the robots they send in to try and fix things meltdown/get destroyed. Sounds like hell on earth if even robotics die!
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana WW2|ORG Editor

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    Was radiation actually released into the atmosphere at TMI?
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Approximately 2.5 million curies of Noble Gases(primarily Xenon & Krypton) and 15 curies of Radioiodines. It was estimated that the average dose recieved by the surrounding population was 1.4 millirems.

    Put into perspective, people living in Denver, CO, receive 80 mrem per year(by simply living at a higher altitude) more than those living in Harrisburg, PA.
    Page 193 here: http://www.threemileisland.org/downloads/354.pdf

    Of course, the health effects of the accident have been continuously studied and debated.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident_health_effects
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana WW2|ORG Editor

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    Gojira is not impressed.
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Thankfully! Said as a person who has never lived more than a 45 minute drive from TMI.

    But, then again...The containment buildings at TMI are concrete blockhouses
    [​IMG]

    As opposed to Chernobyl, which had no such containment building, or Fukushima, which was more form than substance.
     
  19. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Somebody here is a little spooky. ..OP, care to come clean? People talk about the RCMP having long arms.
     
  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Ummm, Poppy...I'd be more worried about his halitosis than his arms.
    [​IMG]
     

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