German Half tracks?

Did German half tracks have smoke dispenses during WW2?

 

The sdkfz 11/1 and the sdkfz 11/4 were both 3 ton halftracks used as a fog/smoke generating machine and then the sdkfz 11/1 converted to nebelwerfer carrier.

Below: sdkfz 11/4

 

No, not in principle, but as everything concerning Germans has to have an exception, you may find a photo or two of SPWs with smoke dispensers scrounged from somewhere. For myself I can't remember ever seeeing any.

I'm speaking of launchers like the ones on this turret.

 

I am looking for a general rule here for a WW2 wargame.

Its seems "in general" most German Tanks used smoke dispenses, but I have had trouble finding information on German half tracks.

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that in general German half tracks don't come with smoke dispenses as standard.

If anybody has any information to the contrary, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks guys.

 

Brycie, forget the smoke dispensers in half tracks, nobody used them. Even with tanks they were a rare fitting, I spent an appreciable amount of time browsing for that PzIII photo until I found one.

 

Thanks for the feed back guys. Feel like I have a better idea of how to play them now.

The WW2 miniture game we are playing uses the WW2 Book of Armaments (20mm), or 1/72, 1/76 scale.
The rules don't cover which vehicles have smoke dispenses however, only the effects of smokes dispenses.

Its an Australian designed game, written by Stephen White.
If you would to know more you can view their web site.

If you wish to contact them, tell them Bryce told you about the game!

World War 2. Nunawading Wargames Association Inc.

 

Open topped half/semi-track full of squaddies.
If they needed smoke (common battlefield requirement), wouldn't they be very likely to just chuck some smoke grenades out of the top? Giving a rather similar effect to proper dischargers, only in more directions.
Just a thought.

Cheers,
Adam.

 

Hmm, weren't smoke grenades in rather short suply only?

 

A question: Has anyone here (other than me) actually used smoke grenades or cannisters? For the most part these, at least in the WW 2 form, are not that effective for screening. Even today only specially designed and deployed systems that were extensively engineered and tested are really effective.
The only other way smoke was usually effective was to have alot of it. Throwing a single smoke grenade out of a vehicle will not screen it. If anything, it makes it more visible....the "Look over here the smoke marks where I'm at!" effect. The smoke grenades on an AFV might be effective if used all at once. Six or more grenades going off will build a fairly decent screen pretty quickly.
Now, this all assumes there isn't alot of wind and that it is not raining hard. I remember one exercise I was on on San Clemente Island off California. One of the scenarios called for smoke to be used to simulate a gas attack. The smoke grenades were lit off in like 20 - 30 knots of wind. The smoke disappeared so fast it was hard to tell it was ever there!

 

I would think that smoke would only be successful if used to obscure the vision at the source, not the field itself. For example smoke would not work if a halftrack went up and down the frontline to hide troop movements. Smoke could work if you lay it in front of an enemy bunker or machine gun nest. It would make visual target difficult but for a limited time, enough to storm the target.

So, saying all this, having dispensers on vehicles I would say is useless. So pretty much in concurrance with Terry's post

 

The only in-situation smoke that I found effective was the 5-gal buckets that weighed a ton. They could lay a large smoke screen down, but only when the weather is working right. Light winds going in the right direction. And there is nothing worse than hauling one of those idiot things for a distance on foot, and then having the wind shift. The only effective way to use smoke is to lay it in with artillery or aircraft. Even then, the question is which is better, HE or smoke.

 

Tactically it isn't completely useless in principle. An attack that has miscarried and is being withdrawn could certainly get value from the cover of smoke being laid down by halftracks following up behind the retreating troops. That said, there really wasn't any truly effective and cost-effective method available for a mounted smoke cannister system.

 

Not sure I'm putting these in the right place, but by coincidence, a kind person sent me a copy of an APG document from the British National Archives today, it included these pages relating to a German tank's smoke system. I'm not offering any comment on their relative effectiveness, just thought people might be interested in them, as smoke seems to have cropped up a few times recently. :




Cheers,
Adam.

 

Ahhhhhh, I love hard data....