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German hollow charge weapons: what were their dates of introduction?

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by Andrew Phillpotts, Jul 6, 2001.

  1. Andrew Phillpotts

    Andrew Phillpotts recruit

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    Does anyone know the dates that the following German hollow charge ammunition rounds (HEAT projectiles) and weapons entered service?

    The GR (Granate Hohlladung --hollow charge shell) 38 H1, H1/A, H1/B and H1/C were made for guns such as the 7.5 cm Sturmkanone KwK 37 L/24 mounted on early war Panzer IVs and late model Panzer IIIs (such as the M and N) and the 7.5 cm Infanterie Geschutz 37.

    The GR 39 H1/A-C rounds were made for guns like the 10.5 cm le. F.H.18 series.

    One of my sources says that the Gr.38 H1 entered service in June 1940. As for the service dates of later patterns of German HEAT projectiles, none of my sources mention when they were introduced.

    Ian Hogg in German Artillery of World War Two says this of the original Gr.38 H1 design: "…few were used since it was soon replaced by the improved model H1/A.”

    I wonder if the late model Gr.38 H1/C was used very late in the war or whether it came out in late 1942, or in early 1943 when Panzer III Ms and Ns armed with 7.5 cm guns came into service [the 7.5 cm Kwk 37 L/24 gun had a superior armour penetration performance (when using HEAT ammo) than the 5 cm L/60 gun].

    ***

    I also wondered when the HEAT rounds for the 3.7 cm and 5 cm antitank guns went into service.

    The Steil.Gr. projectiles for the 3.7cm Pak 35/36 and the 5cm Pak 38 were developed to extend the useful life of the guns by providing them with a hollow charge (HEAT) projectile. As they are designated Steil.Gr.41 and Steil.Gr.42, I expect that they were developed in 1941 and 1942, respectively.

    I also wondered when the Raketenwerfer 43 (or Püppchen) was developed and when it went into service. This was essentially a weapon like the Raketenpanzerbüchse 43/54 series of weapons (the "Panzerschreck"-- similar to the US bazooka), except that it was mounted on a wheeled carriage. Does anyone know the date it entered service and how many were built?

    ***

    Finally I was also interested in the Panzerhandmine/Handhafthohlladung antitank magnetic mine series. Does anyone know when these weapons went into service?

    These weapons were hollow charge grenades that were placed on a tank in close combat (three magnets kept it on the tank). I've seen one source saying that it was first used on the Russian front in May 1942. But I also have read combat report in which a Fallschirmjäger of the 3 Kompanie, Fallschirm-Pionier Bataillon (Fleiger Division 7) knocked out a 26.3 ton tank with one of these weapons on the date 22 October 1941. (The author describes the weapon as a 3 kg charge with magnets, so I thought this must be an early version of the weapon.)

    I've read of small early trials with Panzerhandminen with shaped charges of 300 and 400g. The first usable weapon, the Panzerhandmine 3 or PzHM 3, had a bottle-like shape with a length of 27cm and a diameter of 14cm. Three magnets were to fix the weapon to steel armor of the tank. The weapon was attached onto the target vehicle by the infantryman who was attacking the tank. It had a shaped charge of 1 kg capable of penetrating 130mm of armor. The successor model, the Panzerhandmine 4, had a bigger charge and had stronger magnets and an improved penetration performance of 150mm.

    Acording to one of my sources, first use of the PzHM 3 was in the battles in the Wolchow sector in Russia in May 1942. As I said however, my other source mentions its use in October 1941.

    The Panzerhandmine was succeeded by the larger Hafthohlladung which was basically an improved Panzerhandmine. The Hafthohlladung 3 had a weight of 3 kg, and had a shaped charge of 1.5kg that could penetrate at 140mm of armour. Later a 3.5 kg version (with a 1.7 kg charge) was introduced with even better tank killing ability.

    Does anyone have any idea when these weapons were introduced?

    Thanks,

    Andy
     
  2. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    I think I saw some info about those in a book I have at home. I will look in it tonight to see what it says and will get back to you on it. I know that this book im talking about does talk SOME about these but I cant say for sure if it has introduction dates--till I can look at it.

    I will see you here tomorrow on it, if I find anything out. ;) [​IMG]
     
  3. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Here is all the info I could find out.

    Starting with A/T Rifles.
    1)Pz B-39: A 7.92 mm produced by Gustloff Werke-early was usage only.
    2)Gr B-39: was an outdated weapon even before the invasion of France. Was instead used with a wide range of A/T grenades which could penetrate up to 4.95 of armor.
    3)Pz B 40-K: Made by Krieghoff in 7.92 mm semi-auto A/T rifle. A special bullet could penetrate 1 inch of armor.
    4)MPz B-41: made br the Czech firm of Ceskoslovenska-Zbrojovka (ZB) in Brno for the Waffen SS.


    Panzerfaust

    Panzerfaust/Faustpatrone 60m introduced in 1944 and was the best type of Panxerfaust in the war. Other modles were: 30km, 30m,60m,100m, and 150m, # plus m, indicated range in meters.

    Magnetic A/T charge

    Magnetic A/T charge/Haftholladung 3Kg, was the most common charge used in the war. Different modles used ranged from 2 to 10 kilograms in weight. The 3 Kg was dicided as the best of all these because was not too light ot overly heavy to use. It had a 7 second fuse igniter when placed on a vehicle, and when thrown, the 4-1/2 second fuse was used.

    Tankhandmine 3/Panzerhandmine 3, designed for use with the fallschirmjagers, and had a carrying strap for ease of transport. Had 8 magnets w-in the bottle casing, You could also attach a round plate with 3 spikes on the bottom, that could be mounted on its base for attactment to wooden objects.

    Tankhandmine 4/Panzerhandmine 4, same info as above, but only had 3 sets of magnets in its casing. It could penetrate 15 cm of armor/.

    Stick Grenade/Steilhandgranade STG 39
    Standard grenade used with an offensive range of 30 yards. 6 heads could be attached around a central grenade, same goes for the egg grenades called: Eihandgrenade.

    8.8 cm Raketenpanzerbuchse 43 and 54 (Ofenruhr and Panzerschreck) had a range of 150 yards.

    T-mines
    Tellermine 1 (L) Kurz. Had a metal body w 4 canvas fins on a wooden handle. This was supposed to be a very effective weapon.

    Panzerwerfkarper 42 (Anti tank grenade 42) no info.

    Hope this helps you.
     
  4. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Andy, Carl :

    See the following on the German anti-tank weapons.......
    http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust.htm

    My friend that was a waffenmeister in Grenadier rgt 43 in the 1st Infantry Division remembers that they had more Panzerfaust 60's than the 100's, but that the 100 could hole a JS I and II pretty easily. Also the Panzerschreck is the same as the Ofenröhr or stove pipe. The unit being widely distributed amonst the Pz. Jager Abteilungs from 1943 onward. Heck I own one......

    E.
     
  5. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Dear Erich, thanks for the Link, I think it will be more to what Andrew was looking for. I copied all this info from Tank Killers and was sketchy at best.

    You LUCKY person you, I wouldnt mind buying one, but a price of $500.00 and up-wards, is a bit much for me. This is about what real stick grenades are starting to fetch--nuts aint it?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  6. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Believe it or not Carl, I was actually looking for one or more of the rockets to go along with this beast, but as you say, pricing was totally out of the question....$200.00 minumum about 10 years ago. Grenades for around $ 500.00, eee gads ! :eek:

    E :eek:
     
  7. Andrew Phillpotts

    Andrew Phillpotts recruit

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    Thanks for all the replies guys.

    I know about the Panzerfaust site (http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust.htm), and I think it is very informative.

    Unfortunately the site does not mention the dates of introduction for the Granate Hohlladung 38 and 39 series of shells. (It emphasizes man portable anti-tank weapons and not special purpose shells for German tank and artillery guns.)

    Another site I found was Das Lexicon der Wehrmacht:

    (http://www.lexikonderwehrmacht.de/)

    This site also has a lot of detailed information. It mentions that there were a number of anti-tank mines developed for closed combat before the Panzerhandmine 3 (which first saw service in May 1942). It mentions a weapon called the "leichte Panzermine" was first deployed on Crete with German paratroopers in May 1941. Perhaps this was the weapon that is mentioned as being used by German paratroopers in Russia in October and November 1941-- a precursor to the Hafthohlladung 3 magnetic mine.
    http://www.lexikonderwehrmacht.de/

    One fellow on Das Lexicon's web site mentioned this periodical article concerning German HEAT rounds:

    Wolfgang Fleischer: Die Feldartillerie des Heeres in der Panzerabwehr 1939 – 1945 (In English: Field artillery of german army in fighting against tanks 1939 – 1945). This essay was published in the german military history periodical “Militärgeschichte” issue 1/1994, page 9 – 15.

    In it Fleischer claims that the the GR 39 H1/A-C for the 10,5 cm leFH 18 was fully developed in June 1940, but went into service in a large number in winter 1941/42. (Probably in reaction to the T-34 and KV-1s and 2s that the Germans were faced with.)

    Perhaps the Germans, not realizing that the Soviet Union had such well armoured tanks, did not feel it neccessary to deploy the Granate Hohlladung rounds until they found conventional armour piercing rounds ineffective against the T-34 and KV-1 and KV-2.

    So perhaps the GR H1/A came out in June 1940, the GR H1/B went into service some time in 1941, and the GR H1/C some time in 1942?

    Feel free to keep the discussion going! I've learned quite a bit.

    Thanks,

    Andy
     
  8. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Dear Erich: wee woo, tell me about it!!, many dealers are getting WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY OUT OF HAND, on their prices. For instance: just recently, I purchased my Oldenburg Friedrich-August Cross 2nd class with clasp, for I think $40-$45.00 dollars from a VERY wellknown and VERY well respected German dealer. Well, to my dissappointment, I saw another Oldenburg F/A Cross 2nd on a site that I buy from about every 6 weeks, and they had one-w/o clasp, for $110.00 :mad: :mad: :mad: I was more than a bit perturbed :mad: :mad: :mad:

    I will still buy from them and I already knew many items were priced a bit high through them, but all-in-all, if you buy from them, you NEVER have to worry about the authenticity of your purchase, but, I will look on the German site for a certain item before I will buy it from this other site.

    For Andrew:::::::

    You ar equite welcome.... [​IMG] :D
     

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