I suspect that the Germans picked this Sherman up laying around Kasserine Pass or somewhere in that vicinity. Looks like Commonwealth fellows checking it out. Americans didn't issue short fatigue trousers. If anyone has pictures of tanks in other country's (enemy) markings, post it here please. Should make for an interesting thread.
I didn't say that the 2nd New Zealand Division fought at Kasserine, nor did I imply so. I said that the Germans probably picked up the Sherman at Kasserine. There was a lot of US ordnance left in the field after the debacle there in February of 1943. Obviously they used it for awhile before losing it in turn to combat action, probably against the British 8th Army. I had no idea what unit the men belonged to that was inspecting the knocked out German Sherman. My guess was that they were Commonwealth types. The German 90th Light Division requested permission to surrender to the 2nd NZ Division in May of 1943 when the DAK capitulated. It is quite possible that this knocked out German Sherman was involved in one of the last actions prior to the surrender of the Axis forces in North Africa. Nice pic though.
The photos are from August, 1944, taken during the advance on Florence, Italy. Given the markings, distance, and time, I highly doubt that this Sherman was taken in North Africa...
Well then, you're probably right, but I never said or implied that the Sherman tank in question was definitely taken at Kasserine. All I said that it was "probably" taken there, and all I had to go on was one picture. The background appeared to be North Africa, possibly Tunisia, not the sandy dunes of Libya or Egypt. It was not dated, the men's unit was not given, nor was the campaign. My assumption that the men were of the Commonwealth variety because US troops weren't issued shorts. The only thing that I definitely implied was that the tank was a "German Sherman". Everything else was an educated guess from a black and white picture.
Here's another German Sherman. Might be a Firefly though. I'm sure Takao will be back with several other pix from different angles to show.
What I assume Tak is referring to is that If you look on the left-hand of the transmission cover on the tipped M4, you can see the insignia of the 19th NZ Armoured regiment. They and the Kiwi 4th Armoured Brigade hit Italy in October '43. Available in decal form! Modellers like captured vehicles... That III didn't stay in German hands long... I mean, if you had a choice of targets, which would you go for... Sheer offence combined with a certain fascination at your own weapons vs your own machines has to play a part. That captured VC Firefly was a much photographed beastie. Sure I've read an account of it's change of ownership.:
Of course.... It is a Firefly from the 148th Regiment Royal Armoured Corps, 33rd Armoured Brigade, captured by schwere Panzer Abteilung 503. I'd post them, but there are 15, so I will just link to the pages. M4 Sherman Firefly page 1 M4 Sherman Firefly page 2
All very interesting considering that the Germans had a reputation of executing enemy soldiers using their weapons-even a pistol!
Hmm so where did that reputation come from? How did anyone know about it? Surely the only people to know what the Germans actually did were either PW or dead? The 19 Armd Regt Sherman could have been captured near Orsogna in Nov/Dec 1943 when they faced 26 Pz Div. I read somewhere that the Germans liked the Sherman for its reliability and tended to use them as recovery vehicles.
Honestly, Sheldrake I don't know how that reputation came about, or even if it's true. I know I've read about it at least twice, once I believe from Audie Murphy. Therefore, I believe that was the feeling at least in some areas of the front. Whether it's based in fact or not, I'm not sure.
