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German superiority, myth or fact?

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by USMCPrice, Jul 10, 2010.

  1. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    I want to add my 2cents:D

    The whole 1940-1941 campaign was pure luck first off the Poles i think personally they are awesome the thing is they are not dumb either they knew Germany was going strike and they were gearing up for the strike and they knew that they had no chance of holding of the German onslaught head. On they were going to lure the Germans on to the Romanian-Polish border were they had a chance to hold the Germans off Hitler him self was getting nervous saying at this rate they will loose the fight. But the whole plan was ruined by the Soviets not only that some of their tech was out dated. they pretty good weaponry and planes and even with their crappy equipment they killed over 10,000 Germans stopped a naval landing attempt (well not stop but made it useless by heavy losses). Luftwaffe over 150 Planes and after all that the Poles went on and kicked a** in Italy,Britain,and Normandy (the very countries that left them to die)This proves that its not the numbers and weapons the win the war its the :heart: i salute to all those brave Poles :salute::salute:
     
  2. freebird

    freebird Member

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    I don't think the Sherman was the "Best tank", not even in 1942. The Pz IV G had both superior gun and armour.


    .


    Superiority? In numbers yes, technological? Debateable, but I still think the German tanks have the edge.

    Other way around I think, you could argue that the Spitfire in BoB was a near match to the Me109, but the German craft was better than the Hurricane and perhaps overall slightly better than the Spits.

    In the Summer of '42 the Spit V's & Spit IX's faced the German FW 190 during Jubilee, and generally came out worse than the Axis planes.
     
  3. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    Allied planes were never Superior to German planes in any way but numbers.
     
  4. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    Are we going to start discusing the 'invulnerable' frontal aspect of the TII yet again?
    A tank is a compromise. If you want something that can not be knocked out then you get something that can not move!
    It looks like we are heading towards the the mythical and unrealistic one-on-one qualities when in fact tanks were never designed to fight one-on-one and 99.9999% of the time they never did.
    Cue fantasy scenario number 1, 'if you were a tanker and you could serve in a Tiger or a Sherman'............
     
  5. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    That sir, is false. As most generalizations are.
     
  6. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    HUH?

    That is a mightly bold statement to utter while standing in quicksand.
     
  7. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    OK NOW MOVING ON>>>>>>
     
  8. freebird

    freebird Member

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    Yes, but the statement was about the 1 on 1 capabilities of each tank.
    Were there more Allied tanks than German? Sure. Was the Sherman the "Best tank" (1 on 1) - No.

    I'd say that as far as fighters it would generally apply up to about '43, when better Allied planes were available.
     
  9. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    I'm pretty sure late model Messerschmidt's and Folkewolfes were more than a match for P-51s.
     
  10. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Hello Mark4,

    Is punctuation no longer needed? This has to be one of the longest run-on sentences I have stumbled upon in some time. Please try a little harder in the future as such posts are difficult to read...
     
    Slipdigit likes this.
  11. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    Nope its the internet:D.........Ok I'll change give me a second.........
     
  12. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    In an apples to apples comparison, the P-51 was better than any German fighter... ;)
     
  13. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    I still like FW-190 *cough* TA_152*cough*
     
  14. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    You can go ahead and love the "Butcher Bird" for all I care, yet the early version of the P-47 had superior performance to the FW-190 of the same time (1943), and the P-47 got better and better.

    In 1943 the Thunderbolt was 10% faster overall, had a 5% faster climb rate, and a 12.2% service ceiling advantage. The FW-190 was probably the best fighter the Luftwaffe fielded, but it wasn’t all that "superior" in comparison with its only apples to apples allied fighter.
     
  15. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    Plus the secret weapon...Jets.... i really don't know why i said that they came to late to do anything. And all the allies did was follow them wait till they start landing and blast them or a lucky shot in a dogfight.
     
  16. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Say that the the early mark of the bf 109 weighed in around 3500 lbs. Later marks were around 6 to 7 thousand pounds. The armament was a lot heavier, but forget about dog fighting a P-51.
     
  17. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    Oh please, the jets were far from "secret"; Whittle and von Ohain developed the same technology independently. The Wagner Axial flow engines the Germans went with were the worst for reliablity, where the Whittle and Ohain centrifugal turbojets were great. The British Vickers Axial flow engine was abandoned when the Whittle centrifugal flow design was shown to be the better concept at the time. Just like the American axial flow design was put on "hold" during the war, it was revived and put into production by 1946, and first flew in the P-84 Thunderjet.

    Wagner's Axial flow design was a problem, not a solution. They (Germans) couldn't get the alloys needed to make reliable turbine blades. The allies could and did later, but at the time the centrifugal design was the better option. While the Gloster Meteor was slightly slower than the Me-262, it was in squadron service before the Luftwaffe jet. The P-80 was faster, had a higher ceiling, and was probably a better gun-platform and fighter than the 262, but since the one was designed as an interceptor of bombers (262) and the other as a pursuit plane (P-80), they were as different as they were alike.
     
  18. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    To bad the Gloster never fought the Me262 the Brits were actually flying around Germany and Bomber routes just for them to come up but never did.
     
  19. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    The Meteor was kept off the combat lines to avoid its being shot down or having mechanical problem over enemy airspace and falling into German hands. The same for our radar proximity fuse, it wasn't used over land until late in the war. For fear of one NOT working but falling to earth undamaged and the Germans figuring out the thing.

    The P-80 came in too late for WW2, but I believe (in my heart of hearts) that it would have been more than a match for the 262. It did after all score the first jet to jet kill in Korea over a MiG-15, which was a generation beyond the 262. Swept wings, British engine (pirated design), and auto cannon on the MiG didn't save it from a good pilot and six .50s in the nose of the "Shooting Star"!
     
  20. Mark4

    Mark4 Ace

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    F-86 sabare
     

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