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GLORY OF DISHONOUR

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by Arhivist_Kharkov, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Shooter2018

    Shooter2018 Member

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    A single point, the Sino-Japanese war started in 1928, or 1931 depending on your definitions and who you site.
     
  2. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    That's a rather sweeping statement without proof, except propaganda pamphlets. What about presumption of innocence?
    Far too many have the reason to lie.
    Regarding me, he was a leader of a country under constant treat ever since establishment and before. In WW2 he managed what seemed to be impossible: to defeat the Nazi beast and managed to liberate many other nations in the process.
    By the way, have you watched the documentary? That alone illustrates what kind of barbaric enemy Stalin has faced and defeated. Quite an achievement. You forget that he saved millions of human lives just by defeating the Nazi state. I do indeed appreciate that.
     
  3. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Play the ball please.
     
  4. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Please, it's naked, unadulterated communist propaganda.
    The threat didn't exist, it was a propaganda tool to make the subjugation of the Russian people easier.

    The US, Britain, Germany made the USSR great.

    Magnitogorsk was designed by the Americans - it was a copy/paste of the Gary Works, Indiana.
    All Soviet tractors were actually Ford Fordsons built in factories designed and partially built by the Americans.
    Soviet cars were Fords.
    Americans specialists helped to develop the Baku oil fields.
    The enormous Dnieper Hydroelectric Station was built by the Americans, etc.

    See more here - How America Helped Build The Soviet Machine.
     
  5. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    btw the "what seemed to be impossible" is fake history too.

    The Russian Empire was able to stop the Germans too, despite being markedly poorer.

    It was the Bolshevik surrender monkeys that begged the Germans for peace (and got it) - because they needed time to subjugate Russia.

    The Germans were far away from Moscow or Petrograd but still, the commies surrendered.

    Anybody curious about the methods used to subjugate Russia in the first month of the so-called revolution?
    See the Russian move The Chekist (1992).

    This is the trailer - not for the faint-hearted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  6. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Shall we please get back to the subject of this conversation:
    Nazi crimes committed by the Nazis in the USSR, Kharkow region in February-March 1943.

    Here is one of Bastards:
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Proof please...

    Or do you have something else to add to this.
    https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=206251

    Curious as to why the Soviets never requested this "soviet war criminal" for trial.
     
  8. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    @Archivist_Kharkov
    Haven’t I told you! They would laugh you out.
    Not a single Soviet victim of LSAH was mentioned at the Western Dachau trial.
    Soviets were too gentle and too naive. They shouldn’t have released a single German they’ve captured on the Soviet soil.
    Nevertheless, there was some greater justice indeed. Expulsions of Germans after the World War, for example. Amputated Reich instead of 1000 Years of the Great German Reich is much more than hanging a turd like Peiper. They’ve got what they deserved: a Mini-Reich instead of the Lebensraum. Subjugation instead of "Greatness". Eternal shame, despite calls for proof. We all know what they did was the most contemptful in the entire history.
     
  9. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Damn dude, you be taking crazy to a whole new plane of existence. Congratulations...or something?
     
  10. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    I would hate to face non-naive Soviets, the naive Soviets were horrifying enough.
    Anybody interested in the story of the Soviet Concentration Camp Auschwitz?


    Let's not overdo things, the territories were German for about 200 years.
    Earlier belonged to the Habsburg Empire and Poland.
     
  11. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    ... and then came Poles and destroyed centuries of efforts to create a great Culture and destroyed everything in a blink of an eye.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  12. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    But there was at the least a pause/ceasefire that ended on 1937. After that fighting was continuous through the end of the war.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    ???? There is considerable proof as to the rather extensive loss of life for various reasons under Stalin's regime. Enough proof that he clearly does not merit any "presumption of innocence. History is not a court of law and even if it was some countries the presumption is of guilt rather than innocence.
    He certainly didn't "defeat the Nazi beast" on his own. As for "liberating many other nations" since he then imposed his own dictatorial regime he doesn't get any points for that.
    Since you are in large part responsible for dragging this conversation off topic your request rings a little hollow especially as your main points are being convincingly refuted. Not to mention when you follow up with comments like this:
    Opaque. questionable, indeed objectively false, and way off topic.
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Just a point of clarification, it is the Second Sino-Japanese War.

    The First Sino-Japanese War was fought 1894-1895.
     
  15. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    History is a set of lies agreed upon.
    Napoleon Bonaparte

    ... and you are an extremely inveterate believer in propaganda lies because you want to believe in anything that feeds your prejudices. Bonaparte was a wise man.
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    How true...Given that it was Fontenelle circa 1728.

    A lie/fable agreed upon.
     
    RichTO90 likes this.
  17. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Nitpicker!
    However, you’re wrong, again, as usual.
    It was Wendell Phillips who used the exact wording »lie« in a phrase »series of lies agreed upon« during a speech in Boston, Massachusetts published in 1881.
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    A lie, of course...since, it is, you know...history. And history are lies agreed upon.

    Or, are you now saying that some history is true, and some are lies. In which case the quote would be a lie.

    Ahhh, what a tangled web you weave.
     
  19. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Never mind attempts to derail this tread from the themes:
    1. Atrocities the LSAH committed near Kharkov against civil population
    2. The absence of will at the Western courts to prosecute these crimes and punish perpetrators

    One of the perpetrators, Peiper, who surrendered to western allies was prosecuted at Malmedy Trials 1946, but the indictment has not even mentioned any crimes he committed at the East. The Nazi turd spend 12 years in prison for crimes he has committed in Belgium and not a single minute for crimes he has committed at East against civilians. Unarmed, children, mothers, elderly. At the end, someone killed the Nazi Bastard.

    So, where is justice if there was any?

    His countrymen, Germans, were indifferent, some adored turd of his type. He had pleasant life, worked for Porsche and Volkswagen, enjoyed support from his comrades. However, German state should have prosecuted him and similar bastards for crimes against German people and German nation because they have created such a negative perception of Germans, or should I say deserved hatred, at the East that resulted in the end of the existence of Germans beyond Oder-Niesse line.

    Inhabitants of countries who have expulsed Germans from their territories are in part responsible for possibly harsh treatment of German migrants, but the major responsibility for their fate is at the side of Germans who have induced deserved anger of their former neighbors. After four years under the German regime people got fed-up with former German neighbors and wanted to get rid of them once and forever. Well deserved anger. In addition to that: Volksdeutscher, Prussians, Suddeten Deutsche, etc. were the most zealous Nazis, involved in abundance of crimes against humanity.

    In a way, there was Justice after the war ended, much larger, much more profound and more horrible, so to say Poetic Justice, for German nation, especially those who lived on freshly conquered territories across the Oder-Niese line. Peiper was insignificant,negligible Nazi thug. Hanging him would have been unnecessary loss of resources.

    Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  20. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    A rather information free post. Indeed it could be considered a personal attack by one who has obviously lost the logic and factual debate.
    [
    QUOTE="Tamino, post: 838566, member: 22837"]Never mind attempts to derail this tread from the themes:[/quote]
    Ah but who is really derailing or indeed trying to set the "themes" to those they desire.
    Have any denied these atrocities in particular or German ones in general? It is often illustrative in historical discussions however to look at comparable activities elsewhere and when. Doing so is hardly an attempt to derail the conversation.
    Not so much will as the authority and ability to do so as has been mentioned. If they were to be prosecuted they should have been prosecuted by the Soviets or the countries in which the atrocities were committed. Extradition request were honored on at least some occasions. The Soviets apparently didn't request them in most. That's on the Soviets and not the west.
    And why should it? The courts in the west didn't have the authority or the access to the witnesses to try him for such. The Soviets did and could have requested his extradition so they could have tried him. They didn't.
     

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