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Gulags liberated by German soldiers?

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by thecanadianfool, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. thecanadianfool

    thecanadianfool Member

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    I understand that the gulag system was put into operation shortly after Lenin took the stage. I also understand that during WW2 the Germans made tons of ground and made it to the outskirts of Moscow. I was curious on whether or not any of Stalin's gulag's were discovered by the Germans and what would have happened to the inmates, were they transported to German concentration camps or forced to join the Germans, or were they even set free?
     
  2. Markus Becker

    Markus Becker Member

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    In Belorussia many prisons run by the NKWD fell into German hands, usually but not always the guards managed to either evacuate the inmates or eliminate them. At least on one occasion the 'liberators' came so sudden, that the guards barely escaped and the mostly Polish inmates survived. Apparently they were let go by the German soldiers because the inmate who told his story, later joined the Polish resistance against the Germans.

    See: "Konterrevolutionäre Elemente sind zu erschiessen": Die Brutalisierung des deutsch-sowjetischen Krieges im Sommer 1941 by Bogdan Musial. It seems none of his works are available in English. :(

    By the way, Katyn was a part of the Gulag system.
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I recall reading as well that mostly the prisoners were killed or taken away by the NKVD or the Red Army before the Germans appeared. I find it always "interesting" that however fast the war is the secret police always finds the time to get the prisoners with them or kill them. I´d believe the Germans would liberate the inmates first, but as their protocol was to eliminate the artists,teachers,politicians,leaders they´d probably make several of the inmates disappear as well.
     
  4. IRu

    IRu Member

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    I think I should clarify that GULAG - is an abbreviation. It means the State Headquarter of Camps. It managed all the organizations in which prisoners were kept. GULAG included three types of organizations.
    A. Labor camps. This type is most often referred to as the word "Gulag" in the literature and conversation. Much (most, maybe 90%) of the prisoners kept in them. As a rule, prisoners there had more space, lived in barracks and worked for the state (without earning). The prisoners, who were in these camps were not considered dangerous, and they had not very long prison terms. Most of these camps were located in the Urals, Siberia and northern Russia (where were the most difficult working conditions). So mostly, these camps were not captured by the Wehrmacht during the war. They were far from the front line.
    B. Prisons. They were kept dangerous criminals, who were sentenced to long terms. Typically, inmates in prisons was located in the cells, they rarely worked in manufacturing. Prisons located all over the country, including the territory which was occupied by the Germans.
    C. Pre-trial detentions. They were like the prison, but there were held people whose guilt was not proven yet (they have not yet been convicted and were awaiting trial over them).
    Prisons and detention centers were in almost every city. As far as I know, if there was a threat to the capture of the city (which was a prison or detention center), and there was no possibility of evacuation, that part of the NKVD (not the Red Army) shot all the prisoners and remand prisoners. It's cruel. But on the other hand, I read the memories of inhabitants about pogroms that happened in the cities, where legitimate authority had gone, and the Germans had not yet come. There had been continuous killing and looting. And it was in the city, where not the case, when the prisoners escaped from jail. Once again, the prisoners shot - it's cruel. But we could not forget that in the prisons were dangerous criminals (the court decided this, but how it was right - that's another story).
    Regarding the use of prisoners of camps (Gulag) by German, I know that in 1942 one of the collaborators (Colonel Bessonov) developed a bold plan. His plan was this: a large group of saboteurs and weapons had to be parachuted to the Urals and Siberia. There they were to arm the prisoners from the camps of the Gulag, to organize a revolt and start fighting against the Soviets. This plan was part of the overall Wehrmacht 1942 project under the name "Zeppelin". Their goal was - to undermine the economic opportunities of Russian industry in the Urals and Siberia. In general, this project was never realized. While trying to land a large group of saboteurs in the rear Russia existed.
    All the people in the camps, prisons and detention centers were divided into two categories: political (those who have committed crimes against the state) and criminal (those who have committed theft, murder, rape, etc.). Political prisoners were considered unreliable. During the retreat of the troops the NKVD shot them in the first place. I think that where they do not have time to do it, part of the political prisoners went to work for the Germans.
    An interesting story has evolved with the criminals. Russia is rich in the population.Nevertheless, Stalin decided that the criminals must also be used in the war. It was especially used at the end of the war, when Russia also began to affect people for the lack of replenishment. Thus, the criminal prisoners have the right to voluntarily go to the front. There were separate units of they, and they were very tightly controlled. But at the front, they could reduce their sentences or be completely amnestied
    After the war, those criminals who have the sentence has not ended, returned to the camps and prisons. And another war began. It was called (sorry) "bitch war" and it lasted for several decades. It was a war between the criminals, who fought at the front and those who refused to fight. Both sides viewed each other as traitors. Some people have betrayed their country, others betrayed the laws of the criminal world. The NKVD did not prevent this war. Criminals did kill each other.
    In general, I do not think there's some statistics: how many political and criminal prisoners transferred to the Germans, or fought against them. There were those, among others.
    And I agree with Kai-Petri that while Russia was better prepared to fight with internal enemies than external. Therefore, in 1941, the Red Army retreated in disorder, but the troops of the NKVD had time to shoot the prisoners.
     
    lwd and brndirt1 like this.
  5. IRu

    IRu Member

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    Recently I was looking through lists of losses in long-range bomber aircraft of the Red Army Air Force (the fact that I continue to look for traces of the bomber, about which I write in thread "The history of one bomber")
    One sheet contained a line that caught my attention. You can see copy of this real document below. Each line is a short description of the loss of the pilot. Record, which is outlined in pencil, says that the soldier (a member of the crew), "June 22, 1941 did not return from a combat mission. June 28, 1941, he returned to the military unit, than he was taken by NKVD and shot for betrayal."
    This is one more example, that despite the chaos of the first days of war, the NKVD worked very organized. And I think they shot guiltless man. One more black sheet of this war.
    View attachment 16003
     

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