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Gun power

Discussion in 'The Guns Galore Section' started by Blaster, Oct 28, 2006.

  1. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    Yeah, that could help.

    PS Anyone know who does use Desert Eagles?
     
  2. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams Member

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    I don't believe that any organisation has ever issued them. I have read somewhere that one US sheriff carried his own on duty, but that's all.

    And, of course, they get used a lot by Hollywood :roll:

    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
     
  3. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    the deasert eagle would be a first rate peice if one expected to have to deal with lottsa polar bears or velocirapters ,mabey
     
  4. Siberian Black

    Siberian Black New Member

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    That's not entirely true though. The .45 is bigger than the 9mm (wait for it). So, in theory there is a lower muzzel velocity. bigger objects moving slowely are more likely to knock something over then small objects moving fast (slow moving train will knock over building...Formula One car will not even though it would be moving many, many times faster- like 300mph)

    It's partially a matter of mass and friction. assuming .45's are longer than a 9mm, there is more surface contact with the body thus increasing friction.
     
  5. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams Member

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    But the impact of a pistol bullet will not physically knock somebody over.

    You can work it out easily enough: a .45 calibre bullet weighs about 15g and will be travelling at about 250 m/sec on impact. An average man weighs say 70 kg, or about 4,600 times as much as the bullet. So he will be pushed backwards at 25,000 cm/sec / 4,600 = 5 cm per second, or two inches per second, if wearing hard body armour. If he isn't wearing armour, the momentum will be soaked up by the bullet tearing its way through the body so he'll hardly move at all.

    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
     
  6. 1950willys

    1950willys New Member

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    I can see where term knock down power is misleading, perhaps stopping power or dropping power would be more proper terms , I wonder if the term comes from informal hunting discussions relating to using the right bullet to get the job properly done as quickly a possible? Ive often wondered regarding the 223 rem (5.56mm) it has been deemed adequate for killing a 200 lb human, but for hunting it is generally considered inadequate for game of similar size and weight
     
  7. Siberian Black

    Siberian Black New Member

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    That's why I'm no good at physics :D
     
  8. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    knockdown as in fall and not get back up again...in the phillipene insurection a us army leut. shot a chargeing morro several times with his 38 ..the morro died of course but not soon enough for the leut. who was killed by a sword stroke of the almost dead morro ...or so the legend goes...hence us army goes to the .45
     
  9. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    And if the poor lieutenant had been using a 9mm Beretta then some other guy might have been needed to kill the morro. I don't know know what the US Armed Forces are thinking, replacing the M1911A1 with these peashooter 9mms. If anything should replace the M1911A1, I say it be the Desert Eagle.
     
  10. JCalhoun

    JCalhoun New Member

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    The US troops also had some trouble taking down Morro's with the .30-40 Krag rifles. The Morro's were supposedly juiced up on some kind of super human dope.

    The 9mm Parabellum is far superior to the .38 Colt, which is what the Army had in the Phillipines during the insurrection. They brought back a limited number of old .45 Colt revolvers.

    Spend some time with a Desert Eagle and you will understand why nobody uses it. Too big, too heavy, too expensive, too hard to shoot accurately. If you want to carry a .50 caliber hand cannon, go with the .500 Smith & Wesson.
     
  11. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    I mean the M1911A1s, not Colt .45 revolvers! And, the .38 Colt has a larger calibre, so it should have more stopping power! Those 9mms are the most inferior modern pistol on the market, if you ask me. I mean, one shot from any gun should stop a person quite quickly. But the .38 didn't stop the morro quick enough, so the 9mm, having a smaller round, should have more trouble knocking down a morro!
    PS The Desert Eagle and Smith & Wesson .500 are both .50 calibre handguns. What's the difference?
     
  12. JCalhoun

    JCalhoun New Member

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    You have much to learn Grasshopper. :wink:

    I realize you are talking about the 1911 but if you look into the cartridges themselves, you will realize that the .45 Long Colt (revolver) actually has more velocity and energy than the .45ACP (1911). The 9mm Parabellum is more powerful and accurate than the .38 Colt (not to be confused with the .38 Special).

    The Desert Eagle uses .50AE and the S&W uses the .500S&W. The S&W has a longer case to hold more powder and generally fires a heavier bullet down a little bit longer barrel. It's like comparing a .357 Magnum to a .38 Special.

    What specifically makes the 9mm a poor cartridge?
     
  13. Cholbert

    Cholbert New Member

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    .38 Special and .357 magnum have a nominal diameter of .357" while bullet weight can vary from 125 to 150 grains (can be heavier but that's pushing it).

    9mm has a diameter of .355" with a nominal bullet weight of 115gr for standard ball round. You can get bullet weight's up to 148gr but that's rare and usually for guns designed/modified to fire "major".
    The luger tends to have a tight barrel, the P.38 tends to a standard barrel of .355/6 while the Browning Hi-power tends to a bigger bore of .357"

    Desert Eagle - only ever fired the .357 magnum and found that cumbersome. A Ruger GP100 or Colt Python is more user friendly but would be limiting due to round capacity.
     
  14. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    JCalhoun-you're saying that the 9mm Parabellum has more power than the .38 Colt, but what has that got to do with the 1911? And is it because the 9mm round has more velocity that it's able to be superior to a larger bullet?
    Cholbert-you said that the weight of the 9mm round is lighter and smaller in diameter than the .38 Special and .357 Magnum. Does that mean the 9mm round is inferior? Because when the Army and Marines replaced the 1911 with the 9mm Beretta, I'm sure they knew what they were thinking.
     
  15. JCalhoun

    JCalhoun New Member

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    Blaster;
    The Army and Marines didn't have any choice in the matter. The US went to the 9mm to be in NATO compliance. It was up the the Pentagon to choose the pistol that they would use. The deal was that whoever they chose, it would have to be made in the US. Beretta was chosen as they had a decent pistol and they made the best offer to the military.

    Here's one for you,
    Practically all police departments in the US have went away from the 9mm to the .40S&W as a standard issue duty pistol. The police have a much greater need for quality handguns and ammo than the military. Very few, if any, went to the 1911 or .45ACP for standard issue. Most issue Glocks, HK, Sig, Ruger or S&W pistols in .40 caliber.

    The reason I referred to the .38 Colt revolver is because you said a 9mm Beretta wouldn't take down a crazed Morro. The US Army was using the .38 Colt in the Phillipines at the time and I made that point. The Army drew old Colt .45's from storage to solve the problem but the old revolver was a single action and many were simply worn out. This why the Army went with the .45ACP and, later, the 1911 pistol.

    The 9mm, .38 Special and .357 Magnum are all classed as .35 caliber bullets.
     
  16. Siberian Black

    Siberian Black New Member

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    as far as stopping powe the 9mm is inferior to the .45....however, the 9mm has greater penetrating power and thus is more favoured (I must admit, Blaster, I did have the same idea as you at the beginning...bigger is better right?)
     
  17. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams Member

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    The difference in stopping power between FMJ ball rounds in 9mm and .45 ACP is not large. Given that the Moros were hopped up on something, it's a safe bet that the .45 wouldn't have done much better. Accurate bullet placement is by far the most important factor in effectiveness.

    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
     
  18. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    That answers my question, thanks.

    (Siberian, do you think that I could use a .500 cal. Smith & Wesson instead of a Desert Eagle in the War RP? JCalhoun said that the S&W can hold more powder and fires a heavier bullet down a longer barrel, which I believe means more stopping and/or penetrating power.)
     
  19. JCalhoun

    JCalhoun New Member

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  20. Blaster

    Blaster New Member

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    What? That thing's a revolver? On second thought, I'll stick with my Desert Eagle on the RP.
    JCalhoun, Siberian Black posted the Future War RP topic in the Members Lounge. It's quite interesting, so maybe you should take a look.
     

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