I've just been there on the international Hürtgenwaldmarsch and saw with my own eyes one of the bloodier regions of Germany. So my basic question is: which maniac was responsible for sending the US troops in there? And with tanks too!!
Im not exactly clear who sent them in but I do know that General Norman "Dutch" Cota, volunteered to send in his men to fight there.
Saw a film on that one some years ago. The US were killed like cattle, pardon me on the expression. Anyway, some stuff on this one as well: Answer?: Generals Bradley and Hodges (?) Check later.. "Lt. Gen. Courtney H. Hodges' First Army hit the West Wall defenses, which the Allies (but not the Germans) called the Siegfried Line." So it was Hodges at least. ---------- The 22d was neither poorly trained nor led. LTG J. Lawton Collins, the VII Corps Commander and later the Army Chief of Staff, considered the 22d one of the premier infantry regiments in the European Theater of Operations. It had been formed in 1940 and at the time of the Hurtgen battle, most of its officers at the company level and above had been with the regiment since 1942. By all accounts, the regiment's commander, COL Charles T. Lanham, and his battalion commanders, were effective leaders. Officers at the platoon level were primarily Officer Candidate School graduates who had joined the unit after it had landed at Utah Beach. Many of the enlisted soldiers, especially the NCOs, had been with the unit during its training in the United States and Britain. http://www.armyhistoryfnd.org/armyhist/research/detail2.cfm?webpage_id=147&page_type_id=3 --------- The dam!? After the war, German General Rolf van Gersdorff commented, "I have engaged in the long campaigns in Russia as well as other fronts and I believe the fighting in the Hurtgen was the heaviest I have ever witnessed." Still, the Germans were delighted that the Americans wanted to throw their weight into an attack against dug-in troops in a forest where the American preponderance of artillery and command of the air would be of little value. Also, delighting the Germans was that the Hurtgen Forest was of little military value and, if lost to the Americans, could be flooded since the Germans held flood control dams above the level of the forest. It was a battle that the Germans really couldn't lose. These were the magnificent kids of the American high school classes of 1942, 43 and 44 and while over 50,000 German soldiers were executed for desertion during this time period, only one American soldier was executed for the same offense, remarkably demonstrating the patriotism and devotion to duty of this group. Haaa! Gotcha ( I think ): However, Generals Bradley and Hodges remained determined to take the Hurtgen Forest. Having eliminated the 28th Division, they put in the 4th Infantry Division http://www.5ad.org/hurtgen_joe.htm ----------- http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/hurtgen.html -----------
All I know is the end result was the bad mauling of the US 4th, 28th, 29th and 106th Infantry Divisions.
I saw the movie, too: "The Sound of War", USA 1998 Not a blockbuster, but good anyway, with some ideas off the mainstream (the "hero" shooting a wounded comrade or surrendering men of his platoon, the will to survive as the leading motive etc.) Cheers,
Does anybody have idea of the casualties there? By the way, isn't the film When trumpets fade set here?
Yes-When Trumpets Fade is set in the Hurtgenwald. 30,000 Americans KIA/WIA 25% of all US troops engaged were casualties The 22nd Regt. of the US 4th Infantry Division, and the 60th Regt. of the US 9th Infantry Division suffered 100% casualties! Couldn't get a figure on German casualties, although I have heard estimates of 40,000-100,000. No wonder the Hurtgen Forest became known as the Death Factory.
100.000 German casualties? For a bloody forest in which we were defending and had all in favour?! Please! That costed the whole battle of the Bulge!
It's always the way with war-biggest losses occur on your own doorstep-especially when you don't want the enemy to get through.
Previously : During the battle, the 22d captured 764 Germans. There is no existing casualty figures for German units, outside of those captured. However, it must be assumed that Herman casualties were at least as high, if not higher, than those of the 22d. ----- The 9th US Division already lost 4500 men during its attempt to cross the forest. They were relieved by the 28th Division. Within two weeks, losses were so high, they were replaced by the 8th Division. Another division, the 4th, followed by the 83rd and the 5th Armoured, were also send into the forest.. all in all, 120.000 men. Only on the 13th of december, troops of the 83rd and 5th division reached the other site of the forest, leaving 24.000 dead, wounded, missing or captured US soldiers behind. http://www.xs4all.nl/~hulsmann/huertgen.html -------- So about 30 000 men lost for the allied and maybe a bit more for the Germans?
According to www.huertgenwald.de the losses were: Americans 55.000 Germans 15.000 This is the most believable figure so far. Saturday is "Allerseelen", the date after which we have named this battle. [ 31. October 2002, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Seidel ]
Found a nice site on the battle: Divisions Serving in The Battle of Hürtgen Forest U. S. Divisions: 1st Infantry 3rd Armored 4th Infantry 8th Infantry 9th Infantry 28th Infantry 78th Infantry 83rd Infantry 5th Armored 366th Fighter Group German Divisions: 3rd Fallschirmjäger 12th Volksgrenadier 47th Volksgrenadier 89th Infanterie 116th Panzer 272nd Volksgrenadier 275th Infanterie 344th Infanterie 353rd Infanterie Approximately 120,000 Americans, plus individual replacements augmenting that number by many thousands fought in the battle. More than 24,000 Americans were killed, missing, captured and wounded. Another 9,000 succumbed to the misery of trench foot, respiratory diseases and combat fatigue. In addition, some 80,000 Germans fought in this battle and an estimated 28,000 of them became casualties. http://www.hurtgen1944.homestead.com/02StorySummary.html
Here's a pretty good article on Huertgen --- My opinion is that Ike, Bradley, Hodges, Collins and probably Cota should have been HUNG... http://members.aeroinc.net/breners/buckswar/hist_text.html
I think the best series of books on this period, at least from recent times - are those written by Charles Whiting. He produced several from start of Battle of the Bulge, through to the battles inside Germany in early 1945 leading to the surrender in May.
