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Halifax bomber pic.

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by nuvolari, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. nuvolari

    nuvolari Member

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    For many years my family has had a beautiful painting of a Handley Page Halifax bomber in 51 Sqdn. markings. The aircraft is coded MH-J an it's number is HR 936. We are a Navy/Army family and had no aircrew amongst us ( apart from my stepfather- a miserable old scrote who navigated Mossies in WW2 ). We did have an Uncle Bob Buckley who flew Constellations and Stratocruisers for BOAC after the war, so he may well have served in the RAF during WW2. Does anyone know how I can research the plane and 51 Sqdn. ? The picture ( a water colour) was painted by a D. Wademan in 1965 and is of a highly professional quality-has anyone heard of him ?
    Malladyne.
     
  2. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    Don't know...maybe you can google it?

    atleast i found something..

    http://www.luftwaffe.cz/lent.html

    Helmut Lent's 29 kill was a Whitley...have a look:
    29 21.1.1942 22:28 Whitley II./NJG 2 W Terschelling Whitley V (Z9311) “MH-J” of 51 Sqn, RAF

    and

    1997-10-10 RNLAF-(192?) Spijkerboor/Jisp Halifax II HR786 MH-J 51 Sqn 13-05-1943 Aircraft and bombload recovered. No trace of 5 MIA.
    http://p222.ezboard.com/feafofficersclu ... D=57.topic

    Not exactly what you are looking for
     
  3. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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  4. nuvolari

    nuvolari Member

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    Halifax bomber

    Thanks for your input on the above. It was kind of you to identify the links, which I shall investigate.
    It may be that there is much more information in the painting that can be of use for research puposes.
    For instance, the Halifax is painted in daylight and has sustained some flak damage to the area of the nose. Many other Halifaxes are depicted some little distance behind it, especially MH-B whose serial number is illegible. This is a pity since it is the serial number that is unique to the plane and not the squadron number. It looks like the Halifaxes are returning from a raid somewhere. It is a bloody god picture and I am very pleased to own it, although if I could establish a family link I'd be even more pleased. Alternatively, if it could be established that there are aircrew alive today who flew her, I would be happy to unite them with a picture of their Halifax.
    Malladyne.
     
  5. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    I hope there are crew members still alive (as the MH-J H936 was lost, i hope some got away).
    Maybe you can post a picture, that will give us the idea of this Halifax
     
  6. Canadian_Super_Patriot

    Canadian_Super_Patriot recruit

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  7. Ome_Joop

    Ome_Joop New Member

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    They only put in on display...or are they planning to get it into flying condition?
    Great story btw!
     
  8. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    There was an artical about this in Flypast IIRC quite a while back. The Halifax has been restored to flying condition, but it will never leave its hangar. Seems a shame in someways, but in many respects it is just too valuable to risk.
     
  9. Skua

    Skua New Member

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  10. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    The Museum's Halifax reconstruction is based on a section of the fuselage of Halifax II, HR792, which carried out an emergency landing on the Isle of Lewis in 1945. A crofter, Mr McKenzie, purchased the fuselage section for use as a hencoop. The wings came from Hastings, TG536, at RAF Catterick. The reconstruction is named "Friday the 13th" in honour of Halifax, LV907, which completed 128 operations with 158 Squadron, and is representative of all examples built.

    http://www.yorkshireairmuseum.co.uk/col ... .asp?id=11

    So it is genuine, although the wings are not an actual Halifax's wings. Perhaps CSP was referring to the fact that Canada's Halifax is the only one restored to airworthy condition IIRC, even if it will never fly.
     
  11. nuvolari

    nuvolari Member

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    Halifax restoration

    Weel done, the Canucks, for restoring that Halifax. For many years I have pressurising the Royal Air Force Museum to restore theirs, but they wouldn't have it. Yet, if ever an aircraft was more worthy of restoration I don't know it ! What amuses me ,though, is where I live not far away from the old Handley Page factory, there are many former HP workers who are actively canvassing support for a project they have which is to build ( not RE-build ! ) from scratch an old pre war H.P. airliner ( I forget the name of it ) and they don't even have a set of blueprints for it, let alone a carcass to work with. You cannot but admire their enthusiasm,but will it ever be built ? What do you think ?
    Malladyne.
     
  12. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Re: Halifax restoration

    Why on earth won't the RAF Museum restore theirs?! That doesn't make any sense to me. Having seen the USAF Museum in Dayton, Ohio, I'd figure the RAF one would jump at the chance to add a restored Halifax to their collection.
     
  13. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    I think you need to distinguish between different types of restoration. There are two common standards of restoration, static display or flying condition (I'm not an expert so please excuse me if the terms are slightly incorrect).

    For static display purposes (i.e. in a museum), the aircraft just has to look right. This is by far the cheapest and easiest option for obvious reasons, the engine and undercarriage doesn't need to work, the controls don't need to work, the airframe just has to be complete (Although not always, aircraft can be displayed as fuselage only for example) and appropriately painted.

    To be restored to flying condition and fly requires a lot more money, a lot more time, a lot more work, all the technical legalities of acquiring an airworthyness certificate then the ongoing expense of fuel, maintenance and insurance.

    The Canadian example is currently the only one restored to an Airworthy condition, although my understanding is that it will never fly, so at least most of the maintenance costs and fuel costs are avoided, not to mention that I imagine the imagine the insurance is much less.

    The RAF Museum's example according to their website is restored and on Static display, it is not however restored to an airworthy condition and may not be capable of being restored to an airworthy condition for all I know.

    For the RAF, it would require a huge injection of public money to restore and maintain a flying Halifax, and one that they're unfortunately unlikely to get for a relatively unknown type such as the Halifax (Let's face it even in Britain there's a fair chance that people in the street will recognise "Lancaster" as a plane, but mention Halifax and all they'll probably think of is the bank of that name :roll: ).

    There is another sort of restoration, occasionally aircraft are restored to a flying condition (Such as the Spitfire and Hurricane at Manston), but are then deliberately disabled by removing a vital part. My understanding is that this can be something as simple as an important screw, but by doing so renders the aircraft not-airworthy and seriously reduces the museum's insurance costs.
     
  14. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    OK, Simon, thanks for clearing that up. :D
     
  15. nuvolari

    nuvolari Member

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    Halifax versus Lancaster

    You will probably know that there was much rivalry between the crews of the Hali and the Lanc. I remember reading a good story which you may find amusing :- After a particularly bloody and deep raid over Germany,many bombers returning to their bases in England could be seen in the early dawn light. A Halifax crew identified a Lanc a few miles ahead and being roughly on the same course the Hali pilot opened up the throttles to close with the Lanc. Drawing up to the Lanc, the Hali crew were met with all sorts of signs from the Lanc crew which were clearly deriding both the Hali and its crew, at which point the pilot of the Hali feathered the two outer engines and still went sailing by the Lanc with a good 30 knot overtaking speed !
    Marlin.
     
  16. CDN FIRE

    CDN FIRE New Member

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  17. Zoe bayston

    Zoe bayston New Member

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    Hi, I know this post was quite some time ago but maybe you will get a notification of my reply. I am from RAF Snaith Museum and we have parts of this actual plane on display! There’s quite a story behind it. Would love to see the picture as we have no idea what the nose art would have been and we want to do a mural near the story and remains. Please look us up on Facebook at RAF Snaith Museum
     
  18. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

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    Welcome Zoe ! And although the last comment was several years ago I've got a feeling there are a few here at WW2f that will step up and do their best to help.
     
  19. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    As a warning, the original poster was a bit of a fantasist, if he stated gravity made things fall you're better off checking
     

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