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Heinrich Severloh The beast of Omaha

Discussion in 'Omaha Beach' started by Jim, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    lwd, as usual, you fail to understand the real evidence. I suggest that you also get on youtube and do a search for "WN62 Easy Red Sector, Omaha Beach - 10 minute tour". Watch the video carefully and pay especially close attention beginning at 5:50 and forward. You will be looking at Hein Severloh's fighting position. Afterwards, roll over and play dead.
     
  2. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Then best to ignore him.

    No, not exactly. The photo shows the two Ringstande at the southern end of WN 62 marked by the two adjacent circles. One marked with a '7' was manned by Schnichels and was probably armed with a Polish MG wz 08 or 30. The other Ringstande was for the positions heliograph. The diamond marked '13' was an AAMG position equipped with twin MG 38 or 42 manned by Pieh, Schulte, and Haeming. To its right, the position marked with a arrow '8' was Severloh's. Gockel's position with his MG wz 08 or 30 was the arrow '8' to the upper right of Severloh. The '8' to the left of Gockel was Kieserling's, also with a Polish MG, while the '8' to the left of Kieserling was Faust and Kwiakowsky's position with an MG 42.

    Indeed, including the position weapons and those of the supporting infantry companies in reserve, the ten WN had 88 machine guns of various types, about half of which were MG 34/42.

    Following his "logic" that every MG 42 would inflict 2,000 casualties, then the "real" casualties due to machine gun fire on OMAHA were at least 90,000. Given that the rest of the machine guns were not nearly as capable as the miraculous MG 42, say only 500 each were inflicted by them, or another 22,500. Then, given that the cause of 75% of casualties in World War II were artillery, mortars and the like, then the "logical" assumption is that American casualties on OMAHA were 450,000 and that "units" or the "government" concealed the losses there by "hiding" some 446,000 men...mind you, how they got them all on the landing craft remains a mystery to me.

    No, a better theory is Stupidity.
     
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  3. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    Some very interesting concept have been brought up here. It seems like we have a good pool of knowledge about this incident.

    A shame we cannot go a few posts without someone being called retarded for posting counter arguments.
     
  4. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    RichTO90, How does it feel to be dead from the neck up? If there is any stupidity here, it is yours! As usual you do not understand the argument. The point in question is simple. There is a fully accepted as fact German soldier, sometimes known as the "Bloody Beast of Omaha" or similar. Who is known to have done great havoc to the US army on D-Day. No doubt about it, it is fact. Hein Severloh is thought by many to be that German soldier, and in fact does appear to have the best claim to be the "Bloody Beast of Omaha". Now, the point is question is this, "How many GIs could the Beast of Omaha possibly killed or wounded?" Answer= If Severloh fired 10,000 plus rounds, as per what is known, in the manner which he had been trained. He would have fired short bursts of approximately 5 shots each at INDIVIDUAL GIs. Divide 10,000 by 5 and the total approximate casualties inflicted on the GIs would be 2,000. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! Next question, IS THERE ANY PHYSICAL PROOF SEVERLOH DEED? Answer= YES! Get on youtube and do a search for "WN62 Easy Red Sector, Omaha Beach - 10 minute tour". This video, at minute 5:50 and onward shows one hell of a lot of garand firepower which knocked off a lot of concrete, was directed at whomever was using this fighting position. Use the pause button and look at it carefully until you understand what you are looking at. Your arguments have been STOMPED!
    If you do not want me to talk to you bad, BE NICE! I can answer any reasonable question.
     
  5. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    I am genuinely curious, are you ten? Or twelve? Or just that immature?

    So answer a reasonable question then. Who was the "Beast of OMAHA"? Was it Severloh? Or Gockel? Or Schnichels? Or Pieh, Schulte, and Haeming? Or Kieserling? Or Faust and Kwiakowsky? They all manned machine guns at WN 62 and fired on American soldiers, presumably using the same techniques. As did the other nameless soldiers manning the other 83-odd machine guns on OMAHA at the other six WN that could bring direct fire on the beach.

    Then answer another reasonable question. If any one of them was the "Beast of OMAHA" and each fired 10,000 rounds, then doesn't that mean there were at least 450,000 casualties on OMAHA? Yes or no.
     
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  6. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    Answer to your first question: I'm old enough to be your grandfather. So be respectful. If you think I am wrong, ask for more information. I will supply it. Be disrespectful and I will verbally stomp you.
    Answer to your second question: The consensus of opinion is that Hein Severloh earned that nickname. If you had actually paid attention in class, you should have known that.
    Answer to your third question: No other German soldier, that I know of, has put forth a claim to have fired anywhere near that much ammunition at the US army, on Omaha Beach on D-Day. Therefore the logical conclusion is that Hein Severloh and the "Bloody Beast of Omaha" are the same person. Persons who have served in the US armed forces and similar militaries have a difficulty in comprehending that Severloh's feat is even possible. It is! Soldiers in the US military are taught that a machinegun is means of "keeping the enemies' heads down", or of "suppressing enemy fire" , "creating a beaten zone", "spray and pray" and so forth. Look at US machineguns from WW2 and earlier. They were designed to be bullet delivery systems, not precision accuracy weapons.
    German soldiers had very different machineguns that were designed to have a very high rate of fire and to be as accurate as a rifle. To be used exactly like a rifle. To be aimed at ONE enemy soldier at a time and KILL him! Then move on very quickly to the next enemy soldier and KILL him! Just like a computer game! The rate of fire of an MG34 is 15 shots per second. The rate of fire from a MG42 is 25 shots per second. That high rate of fire and very short burst is designed to create a dense beaten zone centered on ONE enemy soldier! German soldiers were trained to fire very short bursts averaging 5 shots per burst. Hence the division of rounds fired by 5.
     
  7. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    In a court of law they would call this type of evidence "circumstantial". The doctrines you outline would be true for any German soldier with an MG38/42, and we don't see other similar feats from other soldiers with the same weapon. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claiming you fired 10,000 rounds isn't extraordinary, it's by definition hearsay.

    And by the way, the next person who throws out an insult in this thread will earn some time in the Cooler.
     
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  8. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    I'm patiently waiting for our new friend's proof positive that the morning reports from the units involved in the landing at Omaha Beach were falsified. That requires evidence, not opinion, and for certes something more than reference to Civil War battles.

    I, frankly, am unimpressed by his recitation of experience with automatic weapons. I started firing same at the age of 13, some 52 years ago under the watchful eyes of Marine Gunnery Sergeants and later Navy petty officers. When they called in my college ROTC class to teach about the M-2, I had the one on my table apart and all the pieces in the correct place on the chart before the, suddenly irate, Sergeant could finish his intro. Then he let me walk around and assist in the instruction. So, no, our new friend is not unique. And he has repeatedly demonstrated a complete lack of familiarity with military reporting. Our new friend may know how to plink targets, but he has apparently never had a moments exposure to the hum-drum every day reporting requirements of military units.

    So, I ask, which units filed false morning reports and what in them was false? Not interested in opinion, the charge has been made, let us see some evidence. Name units, name commanders signing these false reports. If you can't, then you are blowing smoke and you need go talk to folks who appreciate smoke, not facts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  9. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    You are not paying attention! For your information, there are lots of people rotting in jail for many years after being convicted on "circumstantial evidence". Also, I'm not claiming anything. All I am doing is explaining the reasoning of why it is possible that Severloh could have done what he is given credit for doing. I did not originate his claim. It has been on record for many years. I NEVER SAID I HAD FIRED 10,000 ROUNDS. The 10,000 plus rounds is what the evidence indicates Severloh fired at the US army on June 6, 1944 at Omaha beach. For that time and place, it is an extraordinary amount of ammunition. Yes, the doctrines I outlined would be typical for the training of a German soldier. As for other Germans who may have done similar things. I've interviewed a number of ex Wehrmacht soldiers. None seemed to dismiss Severloh's claim. Their attitude was that he did his duty, irrespective of how many he had killed. Several mentioned that they had done something similar during mass attacks by the Red army on the eastern front.
     
  10. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Listen bud, you'll receive respect when you earn it and age doesn't cut it. Yet again you are substituting assumptions and opinion for actual knowledge. You see, my Grandfather was a World War I vet and died in 1989. My Dad was a World War UK vet and died in 2006, so your assumptions with regards to my age are about as accurate as anything you have opined so far. BTW I don't need a video of Severloh's position since I walked it with my Dad and my son's in 2000.

    So, unless you are over 100, you better reevaluate your assumptions.
     
  11. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    Well Old Pal, you have got a lot to learn! Wanna talk about ancestors? Mine were in this country from the beginning! Pochahontas was a gggggggggggrandmother! My ancestors have fought in every war this country has had, including before it was a country, and sometimes on both sides. I have ancestors that knew George Washington personally. I know because he wrote to them.D My gggrandmother was a descendent of a cousin to George's wife, Martha. Gen. Daniel Morgan, George's favorite, is related to me 3 ways in that two of my gggggrandfather's daughters married his nephews. That same gggggrandfather's wife was a cousin to Daniel Boone. I am also related two Daniel Boone three other ways. One being that a ggggggrandfather was married to Daniel Boone's aunt. Another way being that Daniel Boone's sister Hannah was married to his cousin, John Stewart. Gen. William Russell, another one of George's, was a cousin to my gggggrandfather. Gen. Russell's wife was a sister to Patrick Henry, you may have heard of him. One of my ggggrandmother's was a cousin to Gen. Robert E. Lee's wife, which means she was also related to George's wife. I had four greatgrandfathers in the Confederate army, all of them did not take the oath at the end of the War of Northern Aggression. At lest 3 rode with Jesse James, who was a cousin to one on them. I can go on, but you might say that I am a bit less than awed at your ancestors. Speaking of Dads, if mine were alive he would be 125 years old. He was an interesting fellow.
    PS: I don't deal in assumptions, FACTS are good enough for me
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  12. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Really? So far as I can see you wouldn't know a fact if it crawled up your ass serenaded by a brass band.
     
  13. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    You are proving yourself to be a rather nasty fellow. Probably has something to do with your IQ. Please behave yourself, you do claim to be an adult and keep in mind the topic of this discussion.
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    From conspiracy theories to dueling ancestors...
     
  15. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Sorry I'm confused now...who's dick is bigger?
     
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  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I could say something concerning Shooterike, but Otto would most certainly through me in the cooler. Discretion is the better part of valor.
     
  17. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Do you really not get the point or are you just trying to throw down a smoke screen to cover the fact that your position has been completely undermined.


    *** edit for ***
    The above was directed at shoterike. Just noticed that there have been a couple of post in before this got posted and wanted to avoid any confusion as to intent.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  18. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Quite obviously from the posting here there is no such consensus. Indeed the trend is in the other direction.
    Logic isn't your strong suit is it. A claim is not proof. Nor does the lack of a claim in any way prove that someone else didn't fire as many or more rounds.
    Thus illustrating a lack of knowledge of both US military training and history. As an example note that one of the more famous US snipers used a machine gun a fair amount of the time.
    Sources please.
    Like movies games don't really count for much as a source.
     
  19. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I was about to post additional refutations of the position of our latest problem child but it came to me that he is so obviously either a dweller under the bridge or one whose belief in his fantasy has gone well into fanatic territory. No real point in continuing the conversation to date clearly shows his position has been falsified as have many of his claims of expertise in various areas.

    Perhaps we should have followed Takao's advice (post 14) early on although there is some benefit to seeing positions such as this demolished so thoroughly.
     
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  20. shooterike

    shooterike Member

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    I'm not a
    You fellows are the ones with a problem. It's called "groupthink". A lot of liberals have it. They like to talk about freedom of speech but it scares the Hell out of them when somebody actually uses it. EVERYTHING I have said is TRUE! You may not like it, but you don't have too. Truth exists outside of human emotions. My best advice is get over it!
     

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