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Herman Goring

Discussion in 'Leaders of World War 2' started by Gunter_Viezenz, Sep 27, 2005.

  1. phip phpbb3

    phip phpbb3 New Member

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    I've been wending my way through the 900 pages of The Devil's Disciples: Hitler's Inner Circle by Anthony Read, who is a BBC commentator and author rather than a professional historian. Not withstanding his "lack of professional credentials," the book is fascinating. Mr. Read is most certainly no fan of the Nazis, but he displays a grudging respect for Goering's competence, energy and decisiveness. To use a badly over-used bit of jargon we Americans like very much, Goering was the "go-to" guy. He pretty much handled German air and ground re-armament. And, by the way, it was the massive rearmament efforts that necessitated German "attachment" of other countries and their resources.
    Goering evidently managed to overcome his addiction to morphine long before the war. Interestingly, his godfather was Jewish, and throughout the war Goering assisted his brother (something of an anti-nazi) in helping individual Jews avoid the final solution. It seems that the point of the book is that Goering's ambition far exceeded his morality.
     
  2. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    On the note of Goering Jewish relation, when Goering was wounded in the Beer Hall Pustch, the Nazis took him to a house. The owner was Jewish and he stated that he was Jewish to Goering and the nazis that brought him there. The Jewish man still gave him first aid evan thought he knew that Goering and the nazis did not like Jews.

    Some biography about Hitler I have read last year.


    Also it is possible Goering did not belive in the final solution, but there would be the dilema that he would loss all that he had worked for over more than 10 years. If he didnt beleive in it he knew that if he spoke out against it to Hitler he would probably loss his position or be executed and deemed as a traitor to the Reich.
     
  3. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    It is much easier to hate a faceless group of people than a person you have actually met, not to mention one who has taken care of you at some point or other. Hence it doesn't surprise me at all that many Nazis has vague relations to Jews (they were a rather large minority in Central Europe after all) even though they publically advocated their extermination (of the Jews, not the Nazis). In fact I get a little tired with people bringing up the fact that Hitler had a Jewish niece or some other family member; obviously this didn't stop him from ordering 6 million Jews to be massacred, so why exactly is it relevant?
     
  4. phip phpbb3

    phip phpbb3 New Member

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    Roel - The only relevance is to show that some of the leaders of the Reich were somewhat more complicated than frequently depicted. But, of course, a few individual acts of kindness does not obsure the fact that those in charge were responsible for slaughtering 6 million Jews and millions of other Europeans. If anyone has a break in his reading list right now, I recommend The Devil's Disciples. It is well-written.
     
  5. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    I recoomand black book of communism (althought I beleive the figures are exadurated). Actually Hitler wanted to deport all the jews first but they were reluctant to leave.

    Can anyone tell me where the number 6,000,000 came from? becauyse there was no real records kept.

    For exampel on 9/11 the casualties at the towers qwere estimated several times off what they really ended up to be. (NO IM NOT DENYING THE HOLOCAUST, just wondering where the numbers came from)
     
  6. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    I reckon the number was established through the meticulous logbooks kept by the Germans, as well as by counting how many people were suddenly missing from population registries.
     
  7. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    its a war people randomly vanish. Thanks.
     
  8. Man

    Man New Member

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    Ehrm...

    You are aware of the nature of concentration camps, how they were run, the records kept, etc.? How do 5-6 million Jews RANDOMLY vanish? Smells like denial to me.
     
  9. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    I don't think you really understood what I was saying. The German "Endlösung der Judenfrage" (final solution of the Jewish question) was a thorougly organized bureaucratic affair, and records were kept of what was going on. People don't "randomly vanish" in war, either; when they are conscripted they are registered with the Army and Government as being in service. When they die of other causes the population registry will reflect this. I don't see how people could "randomly vanish" considering all these records.

    Moreover I don't think the actual number of Jews murdered really matters as much as the fact that the Nazi regime consciously set out to exterminate them.
     
  10. phip phpbb3

    phip phpbb3 New Member

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    Amen to Roel. It doesn't matter a gnat's ass whether it was 6 million or 5 million or 1 million. There were one hell of a lot of Jews, Gentiles and others who were murdered in the name of Aryanism. Quibbling over numbers also sounds to me like the denial game.
     
  11. Man

    Man New Member

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    Very well put, Roel.
     
  12. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    You are aware of the nature of concentration camps, how they were run, the records kept, etc.? How do 5-6 million Jews RANDOMLY vanish? Smells like denial to me.[/quote]

    No id idnt mean large numbers.

    Tell me what would happen if an he 88mmshell exploded 10cm from you, I dont think there would be much of your body left.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/poland.htm

    I think this would be a good read for you....
     
  13. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    Ok, just to round up a few points:

    1) Gunter does not seem to be denying the Holcaust, just questioning the numbers. Or at least, how we know the numbers.

    2) Although in combat people do dissapear (MIAs, 'unkown soldiers', etc), Concentration / Extermination camps were an entirely different affair, and (AFAIK) run with much documentation - for example, why would they tattoo each inmate with a number if they were not keeping some kind of record?
     
  14. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    Back to Goering. there was a movie on the history channal about Albert Spear and whoever did the casting, didnt do a very good job. Ie Herman Goering looked like he dropped 30-50lbs, in the flashbacks to him and Hitler, Hitler had tanned, blue eyed, and was not skinny enought. :angry: The movie was not that great itself, most of the movie was actually interviews with Speers children, and Richenstaul(donno teh spelling the director lady), movies with Nazis on them (you know like those parades etc) and in the acting acounted for a very small portion of the film. I jsut stopped watching in the middle of it because it was BORING.
    Oh and the Sunglasses the Americans gave the ppl at the nuremburg trials made Goering look like a freaking 80s mobster.
     
  15. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    talking about goering and movies. anybody recall that scene in downfall where he appeared. he was very fat, had a white uniform, was ugly and that's where the comparision ends :D
     
  16. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    Was he wearing a cape and holding a septor?
     
  17. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    no cape but i do think that he whore the septor but i'm not 100 % sure :-?
     
  18. phip phpbb3

    phip phpbb3 New Member

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    Since Goering was a field marshall, what he was carrying might have been a field marshall's baton. Many of the German field marshalls (including Rommel and von Rundstedt) can be seen carrying their batons at formal occasions. And, yes, old Herman did do his theatrical bit a lot. Supposedly he frequently acted the buffoon to boost morale.
     
  19. Gunter_Viezenz

    Gunter_Viezenz New Member

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    Yes he also was know to alienate his subordinate officers, not a very good thing.
     
  20. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    since he took a bullet in his cross (auwch) at the munich puch in 1925, it never came good with him
     

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