Hetzer action histories?

Erich, I am not pretty sure. I just know that my grandfather, a Major then, was serving in 26. Panzerdivision, 9. Panzergrenadierregiment, 2. Batallion in autumn, winter 1944-1945, I suposse, in Northern Italy.

 

Friedrich, thanks for getting that info! 30 tanks with three elephamts- those are the number I'd expect. 88/L71 was probably the best anti-tank gun...

"Aces of the Reich"- damn... I saw that one this weekend. Skipped over it (I had already spent too much!). I'll put that on the list!
I'm combing through some of my stuff, and tonight (time allowing) I'll post what I've got on the elephants...

haven't found too much on hetzers...

 

As I mentioned about scant info on the Elephant. 2 battalions, one in Russia the other in Italy...?

A sentance in reference to Panzer Abteilung 654, and I think this is the unit that has just had a book released on them within the year. This unit may have served on both fronts ?

hilf !

E

 

Erich, let me show you my face about this issue:
:confised:

What? Where all armoured units equipped with a single type of vehicle, like that Pantherbrigade in Kursk within SSDR or the Tiger unit shown in that Gothic line website?!

I don't think so, there were just three Elephants in the unit, among many other vehicles...

Would you like to clear my mind?

 

for a few pics of the Elefant try here:

www.militarygameronline.com/Panzer/tankdestroy2.htm

Also Friedrich, the Elefant's in Italy were from the Panzerjäger Abteilung 653 before their re-equipment to the Jagdtiger.

E

 

Freidrich, usually the Panzerjagd Abteilungs had one type of armored vehicle with many assisting motor transports and two-wheeled apssenger types.

As to Kursk the Panther brigade was not part of SS Das Reich. Das Reich did not receive it's Panthers until the battles of the Mius where they destroyed many T-34's even with oddities of the turret design and the lack of frontal mg's. The pics that we have all seen in the books show later Panther formations on firing ranges and through tactical practices and not on the Kursk front lines.....

E

 

Thanks, Erich! But what the hell were those Elephants doing there, then?

 

did you not say that your grandfather was in northern Italy ? This is where the Panzerjagd Abteilung was with the Elefant !

E

 

The Panthers at Kursk were part of the Grossdeutchland Division... 200 panthers in a single brigade. At least 40 of which didn't make it to the start line for the attack...
(One of the best lines I have ever read deals with the panther- I forget which author- Carell?-, but someone I've read talks about the Panthers deployment at Kursk as being plagued by "minor teething problems"... Within the same paragraph, he details how poor exhaust placement often caused the gas tank to explode... "MINOR teething problems"??? I'd hate to see a major problem!!!)

Panzerjäger Abteilung 653 and 654 (I'm 90% sure) were the units equipped with Elephants at Kursk... so they continued with the same unit designation after going to Italy I guess?
Wait- Friedrich, was your grandfather at Kursk???
(hope I'm not prying too much on your grandfather's war experience- please let me know if so... I don't mean to be rude)

I've read the same thing as Erich- with PzJgr units, generally the main vehicle (or towed gun, etc.) was usually the same, with support personell. And didn't the PzJgr units usually work as part of a larger unit, which would give them access to even more support troops?

 

Yes, but he was with another unit... 2. Batallion, 9. Panzergrenadierregiment, 26. Panzerdivision...

Whatever, the Elephant was a very good tank-killer.

 

I am now going to assume Friedrich that the Elefants of PzJagd 653 were in positions as your grandfather's to add in support with their deadly 8.8.cm's and take on any advancing Allied armor !

E

 

Thats 100% correct. The two Abts formed the 656 Pz Jg Regiment.

My resherch for my Panther article suggested that there were 250 Panthers at Kursk, mostly in the Kempf Panther Brigade.

 

Didn't understand that, Erich...

And crazy, no, my grandfather was not at Kursk, he was at that time with foot soldiers and no-tanks serving in 95. Infanteriedivision, 280. Infanterieregiment, 1. Batallion. with 4. Armee, far from the action at Kursk.

Why was he a bloody sniper who served in all kind of units and every roles during the war? I still not knowing...

 

Well, Friedrich, I do sincerely thank you for all this info from your grandfather;
I imagine your grandfather's company came across the three Ferdinands as a smaller anti-tank company. According to Erich's source, the units from Kursk were re-assigned to Italy. And I also have seen many references to elephants stationed in Italy. Since (at least some of) the main units equipped with elephants was apparently stationed in Italy, I would imagine some of the vehicle were parcelled out to other units nearby. Maybe a battalion from the 653rd or 654th was stationed in the same positionn as your grandfather... we all know how talented the germans were at forming combined battle-groups.

And on Kursk- I've found two sources that refer to 200 panthers- Carell and Mark Healy (Osprey campaign series on Kursk). The two differ slightly on unit assignment- Carell implys that all the Panthers were assigned to the Grossdeutchland division, while Healy claims some the panthers assigned to Grossdeutchland "and two more Army battalions which together formed 10 Panzer Brigade with 200 of the type on strength".
(The most recent source in Healy's biblio is Piekalkiewicz, 1987)(sorry to over-cite- I'm an editor by trade )
But I've read pretty convincingly that the Panther Unit had a really bad time at Citadel. Many broke down on the way to the lines. Almost immediately after jumping off, many of the Panthers ran into a minefield and furious russian fire. Not too good...

 

Well, I suposse that's it... But I thought they believed to his own unit...

Anyway, not a godd debut for the Panther that little thing called "Battle of Kursk"...

 

I am part of the reenactment group 2nd panzer division out of Il and I don't know if anyone posted this or not but we got a REAL WORKING Hetzer! It is one of the most impressive tanks I have seen in real life! I have been one of the lucky few who have been able to go inside take a close look around and also ride on the thing! I just love this tank so much I am getting models of it in almost every size! This thing looks big but in real life is small and very compact. Its armament is only a 75 mm and a MG but still it can kick butt!!!!!!!
A member of the 2nd Panzer Div.
Jason "Axel" DeRocher

 

I think I saw some pics of this Hetzer on someones website about a year or so ago--it IS impressive. I bet it gets very little in gas milage

 

Jason, i'd love to know how this thing handles as far as driving goes.

 

Ya it doesn't get much for gas mileage but its loads of fun. Its on the 25th panzer grenadiers web page in the photo section but you will have to do some guessing where it is. Here is the web page..... http://www.25panzergrendiv.com/
The thing handles like most tanks do, rugged but yet still able to hall ass! It sure is impressive to see it up against allied armor, in this area all we got for allied armor is a Stuart, an air born tank, a half track, and about 8 jeeps.

 

I'm just interested out of proffesinal curiosity. I'd love to have a spin in one of these things, see how it compares.