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Discussion in '☆☆ New Recruits ☆☆' started by tjb6699, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. tjb6699

    tjb6699 New Member

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    Hi, I was reading some posts here and seems like a good place to try and get some info on my Grandpa who served in the 313th INF of the 79th. He was not KIA but was wounded and unfortunatly he seems to be one of the missing archives in NA fire as I cannot find him no matter how I search and do not know his Serial #. He talked very little about his experiences and i didnt quiz too much.

    What I do know is he served in France, took several POW's, was wounded and recieved the Purple heart and the Bronze star, but according to the patches he had on his uniform he may have been in 2 different divisions

    Does anyone know where or how I might go about researching this? Would love some help and could post pictures of patches if it would help.

    These patches appeared on his return dress uniform

    RH Shoulder the 79th "Cross of Lorraine" patch
    LH Shoulder is the 7th Army "7 Steps to Hell" patch
    LH arm 4 Gold bars
    RH chest is what I believe is his Honorary Discharge patch
    LH chest is the CIB Pin along with the Bronze star, purple heart, good conduct, E-A-MA Campaign ribbon with 4 tiny bronze stars, and the American Campaign medal

    He had some separate patches not on a uniform that appear to be from the US 2nd army??

    Im not big into Military knowledge and ranks but were the 79th and 7th army together? I dont find much about them being linked

    Thanks for any help
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  3. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    If he was wounded, the army did not send men back to their previous unit, but sent them to what ever unit
     
  4. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    If you don't know his Army Serial Number, you can try looking it up here. Or, you can let us know his name and someone here can look it up for you.

    The second link that Takao provided is for the Bangor Public Library's digital collection of WWII unit histories. Here are the direct links to the 79th Infantry Division and the 313th Infantry Regiment unit histories. The 313th history has an alphabetical listing to officers and enlisted men who served with the regiment. He may be listed there.

    The Bronze Star Medal may have been by virtue of the CIB/BSM conversion. However, it is possible that it was otherwise awarded. I would presume the former until/unless there is proof of the latter. The 4 bronze star devices would correspond with the major battles the 313th is credited with: Normandy, Northern France, Rhineland, and Central Europe.


    79th Infantry Division assignments in the ETO:

    18 April 1944: VIII Corps, Third Army.
    29 May 1944: Third Army but attached to VII Corps, First Army.
    30 June 1944: Third Army, but attached to First Army.
    1 July 1944: VIII Corps.
    1 August 1944: VIII Corps, Third Army, 12th Army Group.
    8 August 1944: XV Corps.
    24 August 1944: XV Corps, Third Army, 12th Army Group, but attached to First Army.
    26 August 1944: XV Corps, First Army, 12th Army Group.
    29 August 1944: XII Corps.
    7 September 1944: XV Corps, Third Army, 12th Army Group.
    29 September 1944: Third Army, 12th Army Group, but attached to the XV Corps, Seventh Army, 6th Army Group.
    25 November 1944: XV Corps, Seventh Army, 6th Army Group.
    5 December 1945: VI Corps.
    6 February 1945: Seventh Army, 6th Army Group.
    17 February 1945: Seventh Army, 6th Army Group, but attached to the XVI Corps, Ninth Army, 12th Army Group.
    1 March 1945: XIII Corps.
    7 March 1945: XVI Corps.

    7 April 1945: XVI Corps, Ninth Army, 12th Army Group.

    (emphasis added)
     
  5. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    That would depend on the circumstances. My great uncle was wounded 5 Jan 1945 and returned to his unit 25 Jan 1945. I suspect it was primarily due to the fact that the lines did not change much and it was relatively easy for him to return to his unit. If his unit had moved 50 miles away, he probably would have been reassigned.
     
  6. The_Historian

    The_Historian Pillboxologist Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Welcome to the forums!
     
  7. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Welcome
     
  8. tjb6699

    tjb6699 New Member

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    ive tried to search the Archives, unfortunately it appears both he and his Brother (who was KIA in Okinawa) appear to have been victims of the 1973 fire that lost a ton of records.

    My grandpa is listed in the history of the 79th roster, which is the first I was able to see his name in print attached to the military so I know the spellings were correct.
     
  9. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    There are other ways of getting information about their service other than requesting their personnel file from the NARA. If you go to the first link I provided, you should be able to look up their service #. With a service number and their unit, you can get more information. We can only help you so much without at least a name. If you don't want to post their name on a public forum, let us know and one of our Moderators can help you via Private Messaging.
     
  10. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    Tommy is right. A name would be of great assistance. There's only so much we can do without a name or serial number. Takao has given you some good general sites and Tommy has a good handle on where the 79th was.
     
  11. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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    Since he was credited with four campaign stars I assume he was with the 313th when he earned them. That means he was transferred to the 7th Army late in the war, or while on Occupation duty. We don't know when he was wounded in action so he may have been unable to return to combat duty but not serious enough to be sent home, so they may have let him finish his service in administration or supply.
    You could ask NARA for a replacement set of his medals and awards- they are free to next of kin and I believe you qualify-it will say on the NARA. They can use different sources to figure out what he was awarded.
     
  12. tjb6699

    tjb6699 New Member

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    PFC Palmer Brothen

    was his name
     
  13. tjb6699

    tjb6699 New Member

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    thanks, as I stated before, he is listed in the roster for the 79th, his return home dress uniform somewhere in 1945 contained the 79th INF and 7th Army patches...its a mystery ive been tryng to solve i have the decorations but the actual history is vague
     
  14. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    If this is your grandfather Palmer Brothen, then this would be his brother Evald Brothen who served with the 32nd Infantry, 7th Infantry Division. That all fits, since the 7th Infantry Division did see action on Okinawa. I noted that they are both buried in Burke County, North Dakota. When I did a search for the WWII casualty list for ND, I did not find Evald listed under Burke County. However, I did find a PFC Evald Brothen, ASN 37169996, listed as DOW (Died of Wounds) on the casualty list for Burke County, North Carolina.

    If it is indeed the same person, you may want to try requesting his IDPF (Individual Deceased Personnel File). The IDPF is a record of how his remains and personal effects were handled. While this may not sound like much, the IDPF may contain information as to the circumstances of his death. It should also contain correspondence between the Army and the next of kin.

    UPDATE:

    It appears a mistake was made. Your grandfather's brother is on the NC casualty list in error. I tracked down the Application for Headstone or Marker which has the same ASN:

    View attachment 22421 View attachment 22422
     

    Attached Files:

  15. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    A couple other things you can try is contacting the county recorder of Burke County, ND. When soldiers returned from the War, they were encouraged to have their discharge put on file with their local county in case theirs was later lost or destroyed. Here's the county government web page with the recorder's contact info. If that doesn't work, you could try the local VA or veterans service officer (also on the website).
     
  16. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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    Thanks to the great research by Tommy, I see Palmer was given a VA memorial. Someone had to produce his Honorable Discharge
    ( separation paper) to the cemetery so they could request the bronze memorial from the VA. The cemetery would keep a copy of this on record. I think they might be persuaded to send a copy if a request was made.
    First try the auditors office as Tommy suggested, and if that is a dead end try the VA and the cemetery. If you can get a copy of his separation paper, please post it--it will tell us a great deal. The main thing is not to lose heart. Good luck.
     
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  17. tjb6699

    tjb6699 New Member

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    wow guys thanks for the help, I'll see what I can find and let you all know
     
  18. tjb6699

    tjb6699 New Member

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    That is my Great Grandmother on the headstone application, anyone know if there is a way to get my Great uncle Evalds record changed to the proper state and county?

    Also how would I go about obtaining an IDPF for Evald
     
  19. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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  20. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    I believe that the error was not in his official records, but in the casualty report that I referenced. As Buten42 said, that document cannot be changed. It was produced by the War Department back in June 1946.

    I meant to provide the link for how to request an IDPF, but thankfully Buten42 has done that for you. As with many things related to requesting record from the government, it can take a while to get the results, so patience isn't just a virtue... it's a necessity!
     

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