Hitler Aims for Middle Eastern Oil.

What if instead of using all the oil supplies in Russia, Hitler had stayed allied with Russia and attacked the vast oil fields in the middle east? Surely this would have put strain on places like the UK as Iraq etc were under British control (although they were officially not from 1932 becasue of the Iraqi leader's Nazi views I think the Brits 're-took' control of that area?).

What would have happened? Would it have been Britian in desperate need of oil as Germany would be getting oil from both the middle east and possibly from there (in this senario) ally Russia?

 

That would have been a logistical headache for the Germans. Trying to get the oil from the middle east over to Europe would have necessitated invasions of all the countries in direct line between Germany and the middle east. Hitler was better off with the oilfields in Rumania. He just should have waited longer.

The British also solved this potential problem by invading Iraq in 41 because of the pro nazi tendencies

 

Surely not as much of a logistical headache as invading Russia was?

 

True enough as he found out. But he got more oil from Rumania than he would have from the middle east. The overland route would have used up more fuel than delivered. Shipping would end in at the bottom since the Suez would be closed to Axis ships and the Royal Navy ruled the Indian ocean as well as the south Atlantic.

No easy solution for Adolf

 

Good point PzJgr.

But assuming that Hitler was still allied to Russia at this stage and therefore had Russia's extensive resources (possibly) to hand. Would he have been able to (pre or post Op. Torch) have had a successful African campaign thus commanding the Suez canal?

Of course there could (in this senario) still be Brit forces in Malta and/or Gibralter. What would happen?

 

If Germany was allied with Russia in a strong sense then they could take a land route Northward but why not get Russian oil at that point if they are allied?

 

We have discussed this several times in this forum already. In short there was simply no way to carry the oil back to the reich, either by pipeline, tanker or rail. Even if access was secured, it would take years to build a pipeline or rail line, and then you'd have to keep it. It was all a dream, nothing more. It would have been much better if the Italians stayed put in Lybia, never started the North African front, and then discover the Lybian oil 15 years before its time, that's one of the cruellest ironies of the war

Also if Germany stayed allied with Russia as you say, there would be no need of Mideast oil at all.

 

Any hour of the day* is a good hour to

* or night

 

What strange Iberian language? I don't speak Euskera and neither will Jan7, most likely

 

The Spanish and French services ripped the guts out of the military factions, and anyway the general population felt that they had had enough, and in any case the autonomy deals were felt to be fair, so it's pretty much stabilised. But if you go there it's not a sea of roses, there is still a lot of bad feeling seething against the Castillian occupation.

 

I was watching a docco on the North African campaign and severl German soldiers kept saying that many of the wells in Libya were tainted with oil, they thought that the Allies had deliberately tainted the wells so the Germans and Italians could not use them, it was not after the war it was discovered that local bombing caused alluvial oil deposits close to the surface to rupture and flood into water wells. The point is had the Germans and Italians investigated why the wells were being flooded with oil they would have struck the mother load of a North African Oilfield, with the Libyan oilfields under Axis control the Axis could have and i repeat could have conquered North Aftrica but it is one thing to locate an oilfield it is another to mine, develop and to refine the oil without being constantly bombed.

 

Exactly, Roddoss. As I said a few posts above one on Sept.8 of the ironies of the war was the Germans and Italians sitting on top of the Lybisn oilfields without knowing it.

And you are also correct in saying that one thing is discovering oil, another one entirely different is to actually drill in the right place, develop the field, extract and carry to refinery (which also has to be built).

So in any case it would take years before the first drop of Lybian avgas flowed into Marseille's Me109.

 

And lets not forget to refine that oil into avgas or anything else you have to import the chemicals to refine that oil, there are many problems with that, but even if you could (Germany) build a pipeline from Libya back to Europe to process that oil, i bet it will be constantly sabotaged. No the only chance the Germans had in regards to oil supplies was to capture facilities already built, even if they are damaged, it would take considerably shorter time to get the oil flowing, than to build the infrastructure from scratch.

 

If Allied with Russia, then Adolphy would just have to ask his buddy Stalin for it!

 

Exactly. While the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact worked Germany was able to obtain large quantities of foodstuffs and raw materials at very favourable terms from the Soviet Union, including crude and refined products.

The last train crossed the border just hours before Operation Barbarossa H-Hour. All Hitler had to do was to keep in good terms with Stalina and he would get all the oil he wanted and more.

 

Russia supplying Nazi Germany with oil and other stuff throughout WWII would have solved a lot of problems for Hitler and his forces.
Such a scenario couldve happened. If I remember correctly, when the Soviet Union invaded Finland, the British almost sided with Finland. If that had happened, it would've been UK and her allies against Germany and the USSR. Stalin and Hitler would be, I think, allies of convenience since "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
As for Mideast oil, getting it to Germany would've caused a logistical problem that would take years to solve, especially with a war on.