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Hitler Assassination

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by Hummel, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Hummel

    Hummel Member

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    Greetings all,
    I just read a moderately dated article in the Daily Mail Online (url is What if they HAD killed Hitler? | Mail Online). In the article, it states that German military officers, I presume from Der Heer, had been considering killing Hitler and that Hitler's plans would lead Germany into a disaster even greater than following WWI -- pretty damn prescient if you ask me.

    Here comes the maguffin: Who were these military officers considering murdering Hitler in 1938?

    Suppose they actually pulled off murdering Hitler -- there were, as I am sure all of you know, several attempts on Hitler's life that always seemed to go wrong in one way or another -- but suppose some fanatical anti-Hitler, pro-Bavarian, Bavarian leutnant, at some rally or meeting somewhere IN Bavaria (Note that this is outside of Hitler's real power base up north in Germany: the Bavarians HATED his guts and paid for it during the war), pulled out his trusty Pistole Parabellum 1908 and plugged Hitler 5 times, killing him instantly on, say, September 1, 1930.

    I'd like the considered opinions of those folks around here -- almost all of whom I am 100% sure -- are more knowledgeable than I when it comes to antebellum Germany, the nazis, their power struggles versus the communists and other political groups (of which I know NOTHING AT ALL) what the short, medium, and long term ramifications for Germany, Europe, and the world would have been. I know that's a big bagel to take a bite from, but feel free to limit your thoughts to times and places of your choosing, i.e. Germany from 1930 to 1940, or Europe from 1930 to 1950, or whatever you feel like talking about. I KNOW this one has probably been talked about, but, to be honest, I couldn't find the thread (I am, again, looped on pain meds (sorry, it's a lifelong thing, though my PTSD has quieted down a lot and I only have to take a Xanax about 2-3 nights a week to sleep, HOORAY for a damned good therapist!!)).

    Anyhow, thank you in advance. I really look forward to talking about this -- oh, one last thing; PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL, POLITE, FAIR, CLEAN OF INSULTS, AND RELATIVELY CLEAN IN LANGUAGE. PLEASE!! I know opinions can run high, but civility is really important for ANY sort of decent discussion. Thank you very much. Cheers!
     
  2. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    General Beck, chief of staff and many senior officers were prepared to arrest Hitler if war had been declared. The coup failed when the allies agreed to the Munich pact.
     
  3. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    It would have seen the Democracy last, The Nazi party may have been plagued from a power struggle within after the Hitler assassination.

    After that well the Ruhr would likely still come back to German hands in the 1930's, But I don't see any massive movement within Europe leading to a war.

    The Only possible engagements Germany could become involved with in Europe would be the Spanish Civil War, Though likely to a smaller extent and should Stalin be pushing for it the Winter war aiding Finland and to an extent the Baltic states.. Strong Anglo saxon backgrounds and history in these area's, A democratic Germany not trying to gain more power would likely aid them in there struggle against the USSR.
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  5. efestos

    efestos Member

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    As he only was a man, and his foolish theories were common in the german extremist nationalist as the lebensraum, racism ... IMHO other one guy would have been the leader of the NSDAP ... but who would have been that new leader? Ernst Röhm ... no .. he was publicy homosexual ... well, I haven´t the knowledge to seriously stake a candidate... but he would have face the same opponents in GB and France , the unsustainable public debt ... the protectionist policies of that era ... I wonder the "substitute" wouldn't have made the so risky Adolph´s gambles.
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  7. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    you would likely seen a situation like France where governments came and went. There was no one who had the ability to unite Germany like Hitler did. The other possible is the army could have established a goverment of sorts and other possibilit is if the threat of a communist uprising raised again is asking the desposed crown prince to restablished some sort of government.
     
  8. efestos

    efestos Member

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    Let me disagree: He didn´t got the absolute majority in the parliment, he had to get an pact with the conservatives ... and the rest is brute force, public deficit... and Gestapo.
     
  9. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    I mean is who else could have convinced Germany to destroy its self like Hitler did. There was no one else who could have convinced so many groups to support him.
     
  10. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Not quite, There was just nobody else quite so damn insane
     
  11. Immortal Monty

    Immortal Monty Member

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    Sorry new here so be gentle, i would have thought that if Hitler had been assassinated in 1930 that the Nazi Party would undoubtedly haved chosen a new leader but i doubt they would have led the Party to the success that Hitler experienced within a few years. Hitler was determined to be THE Party of Germany while any other leaders may not have had his desire and been more liable to accept deals and concessions with other parties and ultimately weaking the Nazi Party. I do not believe the Nazis would have come into power had there leader been killed in 1930 but i believe a strong unified nationalist party would have had to have been formed eventually to counter the Communist threat. Maybe if he had been killed the Communists may have taken power by the mid 30s in Germany ???

    Hope this wasn't too terrible a first response...
     
  12. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    IMO you are correct in this. It's worth noteing that the Nazi party was actually declining when Hitler was selected to be Chancelor. He was also a master orator and appareantly very charasmatic. Without him as a driving force I don't see the Nazi's ever gaining power and probably relegated to status as a very minor party for most if not all the 30's. It's also worth noteing that there was a socialist element to the Nazi party so they may not have been all that anticommunist under different leadership.
     
  13. Immortal Monty

    Immortal Monty Member

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    The Nazi Party received the majority of its funding from business that was fearful of a communist takeover in Germany, any Party leanings toward Communism post-Hitler assassination would surely of ended this association and cut the money flow. Ernst Rohm had been a avid stomper of Communists since the end of the 1st world war and would have probably kept if not gained more power within the party had Hitler died and i doubt he would have been keen on Communist sympathy within the ranks. Hitler had consitently ranted about the Communists and how he claimed it was a Jewish conspiracy in Germany to destroy the country so i doubt very much the party doctrine would ever have changed to support of the Communists.
     
  14. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    I think more likely that Germany would have struggled through with a succession of weak governments
     
  15. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Fascism was growing in Europe. Germany was a highly unstable country. If the Government didn't fall to the Fascists, it would have fallen to the Communists. One very strong reason why the Fascists succeeded, was that big industry was putting alot of money into various right wing organisations to combat Socialists and Communists. Hitler happened to have the personality to take control of a right wing political party, usurp the others, and appear congenial when required. There were plenty of other right wing candidates. It seems quite likely one or the other right-wing Fascist would have taken control sooner or later. Whether or not that individual would have been so brazen and audacious can be discussed. Hitler, was not, however, the originator of thoughts of a "Greater Germany" containing all German-speaking people, racial superiority & Bigotry, Superhuman vs Subhuman, indeed a whole slew of political and philosophical ideas, and a Fascist leader would still have faced similar problems of Real Politik, and given the attitudes of the times, responded in similar manner to various crisis. Timing of course is everything, but the scope of sweep from 1930 onward is very speculative. At this early stage, the Communists could still gain control...
     
  16. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    That may be but their was defintily a socalist wing to the Nazi party up until it was purged which I beleive was after Hitler became chancelor. Now whether the Nazi's and the communist get along is another matter. Indeed some of the communist didn't get along with each other as Trotsky's fate shows.
    That's possible but hardly guaranteed. Indeed reading Wages of Destruction I got the impression that there was a very good chance for Germany to emerge from the recession with a stable democratic governement.
     
  17. green slime

    green slime Member

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    I'd hesitate to give it "a good chance". It was under fire from both the left (communists), and the right (fascists). It was disliked by what remained of the military after WWI, by big industry, and wealthy landowners. With the recession hitting middle class families causing growing extremism, political violence becoming commonplace, and the Judiciary being hardly impartial, Germany was heading for some form of "resolution".
     
  18. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    If von Papen had not backed Hitler to become Chancellor Hitler would not have become Chancellor. Hitler was not accepting that he would be part of the government. Where would Hitler go next? I would not call that a sure victory to nazism to power.
     
  19. green slime

    green slime Member

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    So why did von Papen back Hitler? What other choices did von Papen have, realistically?
     
  20. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Papen thought he could control Hitler. Papen could have been the Chancellor himself.
     

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