Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

How Germany could've won?

Discussion in 'Alternate History' started by Jborgen, May 5, 2011.

  1. Jborgen

    Jborgen recruit

    Joined:
    May 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Would it be possible for Germany to win if they had simply defeated Great Britain and THEN Attacked Russia? So that Germany's factories wouldn't be bombed as easily?

    If the Nazi's didn't persecute (Holocaust) and kill so many of their civilians, could those extra soldiers have helped them?

    Then Germany would only have to face Russia and the US... and without the ability to land troops easily, Germany could've easily simply held off America while taking Russia.

    Opinions?
     
    Kendusimmus likes this.
  2. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,713
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    simple answer? Nope. There is not a single option which allowed Nazi Germany to succeed no matter which options you choose to give them. They couldn't defeat Great Britain because they couldn't mount an amphibious operation to do so.

    With Britain at their back and freezing them out of trade with a blockade they couldn't effectively face the USSR. They lacked too many natural resources to self sustain their infrastructure, and with a British blockade they were out of the running for raw materials they lacked, which the Soviet Union had been providing them until the Nazis stabbed the Soviets in the back and attacked.
     
    CAC likes this.
  3. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    9,588
    Likes Received:
    1,703
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Moved to Alternate History forum.
     
  4. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,503
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    There are several scenario's where Nazi Germany might have survived to this day, with most of its empire intact, but without a means to cross the channel and take the British Isles, it would be next to impossible to force Britain out of the war without a great ally like the USSR or the USA.
     
  5. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,862
    Likes Received:
    2,325
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I would suggest a thorough use of the Search function. This topic has been hashed about numerous times. Please do that before there are any further posts.
     
  6. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    102
    Sooooo....you're saying....all Hitler had to do to win was to effectively utilize the "search" feature? That was always one of his biggest downfalls, the insistence on using AltaVista to search with, instead of moving to more powerful Yahoo or Google searches. He just couldn't embrace new technology and indexing features.

    Sorry, I just couldn't resist. :evillaugh:
     
  7. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,862
    Likes Received:
    2,325
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Actually, I think you're on to something. Had he used Google, he would have known his attempts to win would have been futile. Bing just doesn't do it. :rolleyes:
     
  8. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    102
    'Course not. Bing has certain communistic leanings. Had Hitler, the founder of the Nazi party, tried to use Bing, his entire hard drive would have totally and completely crapped itself, and he would have lost his collection of vintage Hungarian porn. Yeah. Not a good thing. Happened to me once.
     
    formerjughead likes this.
  9. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,627
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Do either of you have any idea how painful it is to aspirate Cheeto's and Miller Highlife through your nose? I almost fraking choked to death trying not to laugh out loud.
     
  10. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    102
    My mission here is complete.
     
    von Poop likes this.
  11. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,945
    Likes Received:
    761
    Location:
    Phoenix Arizona
    Let's stay on topic or things will get locked.
     
  12. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    8,754
    Likes Received:
    1,560
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Oh I think we could go on like this for several days before getting locked down totally. Most of "the cheese" has been here already you know. All we need is Jeff to come by and it'll be like a "Social Groups Anonymous" reunion here.

    But just in case and keeping with the merits and wishes of the inner circle, I say there's no way Hitler could have googled himself out of any trickbag after letting the BEF escape at Dunkirk.
     
  13. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    152
    It seems that Hitler's best chance of conquering Europe may well have been to get Goebbels to form 'einen schwing band', and fill stadiums with screaming fans!:trumpetplayer:
     
  14. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,503
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    Naw, Volga. The Hof!
     
  15. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    102
    If Hitler had finished one front at a time, instead of trying to operate three fronts at once, he might have stood a chance. Completely defeating the BEF and preventing Dunkirk would have helped tremendously in both the Battle of Britain and in North Africa. Eventually the British Air Force would have been worn down (send over more fighters and fewer bombers, perhaps?), allowing Sea Lion to go forward. It would have taken some time to "conquer" the British Isles, and maintaining law and order would have been quite difficult, but would have allowed the North Africa forces to roll up Egypt and the Suez and pretty much every square inch of sandy soil, since there would have been no more replacements/resupply coming from England. Once all of that is under control, turn your field marshals loose on Russia with the strict order to "win at whatever cost"...then step back and let them do it instead of trying to control everything from a bunker 1000 miles away. Russia, I think, would be the real challenge, simply due to its sheer size and the weather. Nothing against Britian...I can see the British as putting up the most determined resistance (I can't imagine all the freckly-faced Irish redhead lassies just sitting idly by....gotta love the mental image of a freckly-faced Irish redheaded lassie toting an Enfield and several pounds of explosives. Probably while wearing a beret and looking totally hot. But I digress.). So, if Hitler and Tojo manage to NOT piss off the US, and there's no Pearl Harbor for Roosevelt to use to get the US into the war, I don't see us coming in anytime before Hitler has most of Europe conquered. But Hitler would have to start trusting his generals and listening to his advisers regarding new technology and what to use it for (ie....the ME262). Heh. I just don't see that happening.
     
    Gromit801 likes this.
  16. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,627
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    So you are saying with a better sound track Mr. Hilter would have achieved more success, or even victory, in WW2? Maybe that could explain what happened to Glenn Miller. I don't think it is outside the realm of possibilty that Fatso Goering could have tried to abduct Miller as either an attempt to impress the Little Corporal or to exploit Miller's talents for the Nazi agenda.
     
  17. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,503
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    Did they use the Die Glocke to snach Glen Miller?
     
  18. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,084
    Likes Received:
    102
    Nah. Hitler's UFO got him. Elvis, too.
     
  19. chris the cheese

    chris the cheese Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    1
    The assumption here is that Germany could have defeated Great Britain. The fact is the invasion of Britain was scuppered by the defeat of the Luftwaffe at the hands of the RAF. No air supremacy no invasion. I have no doubt there are members here who could, with the full benefit of hindsight suggest ways in which the Luftwaffe could have defeated the RAF, but even if the RAF did lose one must then consider the toll on the Wehrmacht of an invasion and whether a subsequent invasion of the USSR would have then been likely.
     
  20. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,617
    Likes Received:
    1,658
    Location:
    God's Country
    There was never any hope of Germany successfully invading Britain. They had neither the naval power, amphibious doctrine, equipment nor the resources and expertise to develop them. An amphibious assault is the most complicated operation in warfare. That's why after WWI and the disasters at Tanga and Gallipoli most nations considered it impossible to launch a large scale amphibious operation against anything but a minor power, in the modern era. Japan and the United States Navy/Marine Corps did continue to develop amphibious doctrine, equipment and techniques during the inter war period. It was this expertise that allowed Japan to succeed early on and the Allies to mount their reconquest of Axis held territories. Once war was joined Britain, being a maritime nation, was able to leverage it's nautical experience and infrastructure to add a number of innovations. This amphibious doctrine, tactics, organization and equipment were as decisive in this aspect of warfare, as the German development of the vehicles, tactics, equipment and combined arms doctrine that enabled their early dominance in WWII land warfare.
    It is imperative in an amphibious assault to build combat power ashore rapidly (troops, supplies and equipment) or the expedition will fail. Germany had neither the shipping, specialized craft nor logistical expertise achieve this. Britain didn't have to stop the Germans on the beach just delay them long enough for aircraft, surface naval units or submarines to get at the amphibious shipping. Whatever troops got ashore would quickly find themselves faced with destruction or surrender as their only options because they couldn't be reinforced or supplied, and with no line of retreat. It would be a Dunkirk in reverse for the Germans only they would be unable to evacuate their troops. Would Germany ever have the logistical capability (sealift) to continue pouring troops and supplies into Britain at a greater rate than the British could reinforce and supply it's forces on it's own home islands? No!
    Germany never possessed the capability to pull off SeaLion, even if they had been able to concentrate all their military power in attempting it. Infantry and armored divisions sitting on the French coast mean nothing, if you can't get them across the channel and keep them supplied with fuel, food, munitions and medical supplies, they're irrelevant.
     
    rkline56 and LJAd like this.

Share This Page