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How was it that russia defeated the worlds strongest military at the time ( germany )

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe February 1943 to End of War' started by Sloniksp, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. ptimms

    ptimms Member

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    The German Command and Intelligence structure totally under estimated the Soviet ability to build units and replace losses. The Red Army lost about 2.8 million men in the first 3 months of the campaign and another 2 million in the next 3. Staggeringly the Red Army was stronger in December 1941 than it was in June! The Germans lost about 8 hundred thousand and could not replace these.
     
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  2. freebird

    freebird Member

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    That's a specious argument, because their pre-war plans are irrelevant once the campaign started, they were involved in fighting in those conditions once Barbarossa began.



    It would be like you saying "Britiain's participation in WWII was irrelevant to Germany's defeat because Hitler had planned to come to a negotiated agreement with them before the BoB".
    It didn't happen that way (despite his plans) and it definately did have an effect.


    See my point?
     
  3. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Well,once Barbarossa began,the Germans were not fighting in these conditions:it was summer .
    The point is :eek:ne can not explain (=excuse) the German failure in 1941 because of the winter/mud :the Germans planned to win in the summer(they were not that stupid to plan to advance in the winter),and failed in the summer .
    The Germans failed also in the summer of 1942.
    There is a myth that the Germans advanced in the summer and the Russians in the winter :the Russian offensives immediately after Citadelle (Kutuzow a.o.)and Bagration are proving the opposite .
    An other point :the Russian winteroffensives had less success than their summer offensives:the success of the winteroffensive of 1941-1942 is very questionable,while in the summer of 1942,the Russians were attacking along the whole front :in Leningrad,a catastrophe was looming,the Germans were stopped at the Wolga and in the Caucasusand even Uranus did not happen in the winter .
    The winterconditions were hurting the Russians as much as the Germans .
     
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  4. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    This was IMHO the decisive factor,although I would not use the word "underestimate" :the Germans had few informations about the SU,and,if they knew that ,immediately after the war started,the Russians could send 1 million men to the front,what then ? It would mean that Barbarossa was doomed,and,as the reason for the attack was that this was the only possibility to force Britain to give up,it would mean that on 22 june 1941 (attack/no attack)Germany had lost the war .
    No wonder that nobody dared to imagine that this scenario could be possible,because it could not be possible ,and,if someone was convinced that Barbarossa would not be possible,do you think that that "someone" would have the "civil courage" to be the messenger with the bad news ?;)
     
  5. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Sevastopol?
     
  6. freebird

    freebird Member

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    You got it! :cool:
     
  7. Chi-Ri

    Chi-Ri Member

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    The Russians learned a good lesson from Winter War with Finland, and, in any case, they were better prepared for winter combat than the Germans. Still, the winter of 1941/42 was so severe, that it would knock out even the best prepared army.

    Regards,
     
  8. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    Two big reasons, Stalin learned to trust his generals and German industrial weakness. Despite its reputation as a mobile force apx 80% of the German army was dependant of horses for supply and transportation. Germany was simply incapable of creating a force that could cover the distances invloved. An example the distance from ROstov to Baku is the same as the distance from Rostov to the Romanian border.
     

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