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Identify this King Tiger !

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by McIntyre2204, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. McIntyre2204

    McIntyre2204 New Member

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    ​Hey Guys! I was hoping someone could help me in identifying this captured King Tiger/ Tiger 2 being used by the Americans.

    Can we discuss:

    Which American division did it belong to?
    Were there any other markings on the tank other than that seen in the photo?
    When was this taken during the Battle of the Bulge?
    What type of King Tiger is it?
    Where was the photo taken?
    What are those markings at the base of the gun?
    What German division did it belong to?

    Hoping to do a modelling project sometime in the near future

    If i am in the wrong thread please tell me

    Tanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    The King Tiger is "211" of Schwere Panzer Abteilung 506

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w6PkViRnCQ


    Company B, 129th Ordnance Maintenance Battalion, 7th Armored Division is the unit that repaired it.
    More on that unit can be found here: http://www.7tharmddiv.org/129ord.htm
    No mention of the tank though.


    No
    [​IMG]


    It wasn't. It was captured at Gereonsweiler, on, or about, December 15, 1944, shortly before the start of the battle.


    One with a Henschel turret.


    Gereonsweiler.


    Unknown to me at the moment, have not been able to find any clear photos of the writing. But, I will keep looking.


    Mentioned. Schwere Panzer Abteilung 506. "211" = 2nd Company, 1st platoon, 1st Tank.
     
  3. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Takao said it all. Good show !
     
  4. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    #2
    Wow...never seen that pic before...What a beauty. A beautiful tank. ..and look at those shell casings. YUGE...Wonder if the Tiger 1 used the same sized rounds/could fire Tiger2 shells.
     
  5. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Tiger II shells were somewhat larger
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Further...

    The King Tiger was apparently disabled sometime in mid-November, 1944, by units involved were the 67 Armored Regiment, 702nd Tank Destroyer Battalion, and the 771st Tank Destroyer Battalion, all with the 2nd Armored Division.

    Another photo of "211"
    [​IMG]

    One "skinner's" interpretation of "211", the writing on the saukopf is given as "Danger Mined", just as is written on the hull skirt.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Well done, nice table.
    The 17 pounder must have been a special round...What was in the APDS - seeings how the depleted uranium was years away?
     
  8. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    The Tiger 2 must have been limited in that it could only carry so many of those huge rounds...
    Thought the designation L-56/71 was the length of the barrel. The chamber must have been different as well, in order to accommodate the much longer munition.

    edit- words
     
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Only if you consider 86 rounds "limited." Although, if the Panzerbefehlswagen(command tank) versions were limited to 63 rounds, due to the space needed for the extra radio equipment.
     
  10. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    There is a KwK listed for several German rounds.
    The 75 had a KwK listing, but none of the 88's do.
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Not my table...from a google search.

    APDS was made from various tungsten alloys, just as is used by present-day nations that do not have access to depleted uranium.
     
  12. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    The Tiger I's main gun was the 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56.
    The Tiger I's main gun was the 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71.

    Don't know why they are not on your list.
     
  13. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Not my list. Your google German/Allied round provided list.
    See the Kwk listings beside certain rounds

    Unsure how they were on yours.
     
  14. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    The depleted uranium rounds are prolly a whole thread on its own.
    The round that keeps on killing.
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Looks to be an amalgam of the information on Tony Williams website. http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/
    Specifically: http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/tankammo2.html
    Don't know why he left out those designations.
     
  16. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member

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    Wonder why the Allied Chart did not include the US 76mm M1 and M7 rounds ? The scale comparison should be interesting ..

    Gaines
     
  17. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    German shell nomenclature ( as opposed to the actual guns ) becomes quite tricky. Most German ammunition was suitable for more than one weapon and the ammunition crates are stencilled accordingly. For instance, the 'King Tiger' shell boxes are stencilled '8.8cm KwK 43 - PaK 43/1, 43/2,43/3' ie the same round could be used in the tank, towed anti-tank and Panzerjager weapons.The KwK42 ('Panther' ) rounds were transported in cases stencilled 'Kwk42 - StuK42' for use also in such machines as the Jagdpanzer IV.
    The KwK40, though, was specifically a tank and StuG round ( I think ! )......the PaK40, although having the same projectile, had a completely different propellant case.

    As someone said on another forum, the only way of telling if your KwK43 shellcase came from a King Tiger is if you reached down into the turret and pulled it out yourself.......
     
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  18. McIntyre2204

    McIntyre2204 New Member

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    Hey Takao

    Some more questions regarding the tank:
    Is the thing wrapped around the barrel of the gun barbed wire or some sought of plant or grass?
    Is the photo of the war thunder version of the tank exact colour for it?
    What colour are the American flags?
    Was the terrain of where it was driving muddy?
    Can you see any shell holes that didnt penetrate the tank?

    Thanks!
     
  19. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Martin Bull is the man to ask. Takao is good, but he is no MrBull.
    MrBull, was that a typing capital error regarding KwK and Kwk...could a small k indicate a difference in the munition?
     
  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    In the better photos, it appears to be barbed wire or some sort of wire. I would add that there may be the remains of some branches stuck in there.


    I would say it is a very close approximation using known paints that the Germans were using for their three color camouflage.
    Such as these
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    AFAIK, all sources have sPzAbt 506's 2nd Company as having red numbers outlined in white.


    Unknown, as I have not seen any color photos of this. But, if I had to guess, typical olive drab tarp/canvas with white stars.


    From the photos of the tank in the field, it does appear to be somewhat muddy.


    Watch the video in my first post, there is a close-up at 00:13-00:16.

    NOTE: This is also the confirmation that this tank is indeed KT "211". The bottom of the "2"(outlined in white) is visible in the top of the frames. If this was "111" as some have speculated, the white outline would be much shorter.

    The hit location is blocked by the soldier standing on the KT's deck.
    [​IMG]

    The hit location would be right in the notch at the bottom-rear of the turret where the rear turret rises slightly from the base, where I have circled in the attachment.
     

    Attached Files:

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