Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Il duce

Discussion in 'Leaders of World War 2' started by sonofecthelion, Nov 20, 2004.

  1. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    I have been told by several people (including my history teacher) that Il Duce means The Leader. However after browsing the internet, one site was convinced it meant 'Commander in chief' is this true?

    Also:
    What military authority did Mussolini have, did his presence affect Italy's performance in the war?
     
  2. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    Il Duce does mean 'The Leader' (not sure what is the exact, literal translation, but it is close enough!).
    However, I am quite sure that Musso made himself commander in chief.

    Well, he controlled it all. And he got Italy into the war, when it was not ready.
    Thanks to Musso, Italy re-armed in the mid-1930s. This meant that in 1936, they possessed far better fighter aircraft, for example, than Britain. However, when everone else re-armed in the late 1930s, Italy had to either replace her entire stock of military equipment to keep up, or just make do. Being as her opponants to date were Abbysinians (now Ethiopians) armed with spears, Albanians who were essentially an Italian protectorate before the conflict started, and the Republicans in Spain, they may well have thought they were ok.
    Musso dragged Italy into the war as France had all but fallen, and Britain looked like it would take no extra work.
    Ooops.
     
  3. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    The Duke, I think... I'm not sure, it might have been some other expression for leader or enlightened despot of some kind.
     
  4. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    Thank you for enlightening me! Il duce does mean 'the leader' then. But Mussolini was also the commander in chief. I have also heard that he did many good things for Italy, any more on that?

    Thanks, Will
     
  5. busdriver

    busdriver New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Poland (Warsaw)
    via TanksinWW2
    I can't speak Italian, but in polish there is the word "Wódz", which means BOTH "the leader" and "the commander-in-chief". I suppose it's the same in Italian, and what's more the word "Il Duce" might also mean "a prince".
     
  6. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    If duce does mean Leader and Commander-in-chief. Then that would explain alot, Busdriver.
    So now we have a possible list of:

    The leader
    Commander in chief
    The Duke
    The Prince

    Does anybody out there speak Italian and English?

    (By the way, if Il Duce does mean the leader, then does that mean that Hitler (der fuhrer) simply copied Mussolini's name?)
     
  7. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    The leader, ruler, prince in Italian is "Il Principe" as far as I know, like the famous book by Machiavelli. The correct translation of the title is still a major discussion among those who have to do it...
     
  8. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    I could really have caused alot of heated upset with this post... :eek:
    But we need to settle what Il Duce means, so I will keep on going asking people until everybody agrees (which will proberly be years from now)
     
  9. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    He made people who did not vote for him swallow frogs, if that helps?

    About the only good thing he did to was to drain the Pontine marshes.
    He tried to do lots of things (get the birth rate up, improve agriculture, develop southern Italy - which was very poor) but they all failed.
    Oh, and he tried to re-create the Roman Empire! :grin:

    Apparently, he did eradicate the Mafia, which is good.
    However, it was then kick-started by the Americans as a useful 'resistance' movement. Talk about short-termism... :wink:
     
  10. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Well, he built ridiculously large buildings and arenas in which the (hired) masses could worship him... I don't know if you would see this as a good thing. Mostly what he did is force fascism upon the Italian people, meaning that he indoctrinated them from birth that they should love him, respect him and do whatever he says.
     
  11. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    And then they hung him.
    So I suppose he failed there, as well.
     
  12. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    I think I read that he settled the long dispute between the Government and The Pope, by giving the Catholic leader land? Or is this just me going loopy?

    Will
     
  13. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    Yes, that is true.

    So he did 3 things right!
     
  14. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    OK, I now finally have found a book on his achievements. It said that he also doubled the wheat harvest. (Is that four things now?)

    Also, anybody got any more ideas about Il Duce?
     
  15. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    According to all Italian-to-English dictionaries I can find on the web, the word doesn't have a translation in English and was a title specifically adopted by Mussolini alone. Most of them simply give a translation to "Il Duce" (the same thing; no meaning except Mussolini in person); one of them yielded "commander".
     
  16. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    Yet another twist in the Mussolini plot. Maybe it is un translatable, and we must assume it is something like Leader or Commander
     
  17. Castelot

    Castelot New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The eldest daugther of Church
    via TanksinWW2
    I once read that Winston Churchill could be directely responsible for Mussolinis execution.
    Apparently british secret agents were among the partisans that arrested him,and Churchill ordered he should be killed immediately, without any trial.
    The author suggested Mussolini could have knomw a lot things that Churchill didn't want to be revealed.

    What do you think?
     
  18. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    Interesting. But I have no idea about what Mussolini might have known.
     

Share This Page