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In search of great uncles records or info

Discussion in 'Military Service Records & Genealogical Research' started by Kyle_and, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    Moved related posts to the proper thread.
     
  2. Earthican

    Earthican Member

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    OMPF or IDPF?

    Considering "the fire", an OMPF would be a lucky 'get'.

    If it is his OMPF, does it provide any clue to which platoon he was assigned? The most recent weapon qualification record might have such information on it. IIRC, B Company, 23d AEB was split up to support the CCB task forces of the 3d AD.

    As noted by others, unit documents can vary in quality and usually only record the details of officer deaths. The AAR's of the other units of the task force might provide clues as to what was going on. Unless a living witness is found, it is unlikely that the exact circumstances will be known.
     
  3. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    I have both his IDPF and OMPF.

    It doesn't mention which platoon..just B Company, 23d AEB.

    The only thing I know so far is that it was a penetrating head would. I also have info that he wrote a letter to his parents on Aug 9, 1944 stating he was happy that no one in his platoon had been injured so far. Then, he died on Aug 13th. So, something happened to them in between those dates. Maybe I can pin it down via AAR's or something like that.
     
  4. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    And then you may still not get the truth or at least the whole truth. The witness may not want to speak truthfully because of the pain it may cause to him or the family.

    My friend with the 30th ID talked to several friend's l family members after the war and answered a few letters from family wanting to know the circumstances of the death of a loved one. Some he gave details, but some he could not bear to tell all that he knew, mostly those who died a particularly violent or painful death.
     
  5. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    I wish there was a way to find out if anyone from his unit was still around. I don't know of many places that would give that kind of info.
     
  6. Earthican

    Earthican Member

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    From the general history we know CCB, 3d AD was supporting the 30th ID near Mortain. That battle was intense with heavy casualties. It is a small, and relatively safe, leap to say he was killed in that battle.


    This in OMPF suggests he was treated. Can you determine the day he was wounded?
     
  7. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Not the exact day. I just know it's likely after Aug 9th. He died on the 13th.
     
  8. Earthican

    Earthican Member

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    First I would like to thank you for your persistence in your search and for putting-up with my weak suggestions. But as long as I think you are still searching and I think I have something to contribute I'll offer my thoughts for your consideration.


    After you pointed out that he had wrote a letter dated 9 Aug 1944, I re-read the account of the Mortain battle and realized that two of the CCB task forces were heavily engaged from 7 to 11 August 1944. The third task force, not mentioned in the official history, engaged in battle from 9 to 12 Aug 1944.

    If he was with the first two task forces it would have been difficult -- not impossible -- to write a letter dated 9 August.

    However we need to be clear that he dated the letter and that it is not a postmark date? If it was a postmark date then he could have written the letter several days before 9 August.


    Sources

    The official history only has this about the first two CCB task forces after 7 Aug 1944

    http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-E-Breakout/USA-E-Breakout-25.html

    This is a link to a PDF that has several documents from the 30th ID including 'combat' interviews. This is my only source of information on the third CCB task force. Starting on page 10 of the PDF there is an interview with Lt Arn of Company F, 119th Infantry. There is no direct evidence for your search here but it provides some sense of the fighting between 9 to 12 August. There is a Lt Col Hogan mentioned who commanded the 3d Bn, 33d Armored Regiment. If you would like to know more about this action searching names and places with dates and units might yield tangential information.

    http://www.oldhickory30th.com/MortainAug6to12Archives.pdf

    I'll leave it at that, if you need help accessing the PDF I might be able to email a copy or images.
     
  9. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Update!

    I got some morning reports/medical records. It says LWA and then dropped from assignment. It's interesting because there were 2 other men along with him that were both LWA. All deceased.

    His med record states penetrating head wound. The causative agent states marching, drilling

    Any ideas as to what may have happened?
     
  10. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Correction. The entry about marching drilling was a mistake.
     
  11. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Moved from another post

    Looking for any archived copies of death notices (that went to families)

    Here's the info and records I already have.

    Raymond C. Anderson
    37096247
    DOD 8/13/44
    B Company, 23rd AEB, 3AD

    I have his IDPF, OMPF, morning reports and medical record (statistical). I know what his wound was, but am hoping a death notice might shed more light on it.
     
  12. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Hey everyone,

    Are there any other records I should be looking for? Here is everything I have so far - IDPF, OMPF (including casualty report, medical record), morning reports. These are all helpful, but I feel there's more to be learned.

    I'm tempted to request AAR's, but won't waste my time if they aren't going to be too specific.

    I'm also going to take some time to check out my local history center.

    Thanks again for all your help!
     
  13. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    In my experience, AARs are like unit history books. How helpful they are all depends on who wrote them. Some are very descriptive and some are very terse, mentioning only the minimal amount of info. Of course, there is a broad range in between as well. In a nutshell, an AAR may or may not help. There's only one way to know.
     
  14. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Well, I was able to contact a Vet who served with the 30th ID at the time my uncle was there. From what I can tell, the 23rd Engineers were attached to the 30th during Mortain.

    This Vet may at least be able to tell me what kind of action was going on there and that may lead me to more answers :)
     
  15. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Update. I spoke with someone from the 30th Infantry who fought at Mortain...same date my great uncle was wounded. He said the likely cause would have been "tree bursts" which caused shrapnel to rain down.

    "It would be quite questionable as to “How he was Wounded”, but it most likely was from artillery shrapnel, and less likely from a sniper. The Germans were really pouring in the artillery, and tree-bursts were the most dreaded of all by everyone. No matter how well you thought that you might be protected, the artillery shells hitting in the tops of the trees and propelling all of the explosive debris downward, there was no place that was safe. I really believe that this would have been the most likely cause of his wound and ultimate death. Most of our casualties at this time, were of this type."

    That's the best info I can get for now
     
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  16. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    That's about as close as you can get to an eyewitness account. He was there and knew what it was like.
     
  17. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Agreed. Now I know some of the 23rd was also fighting near Juvigny France at that time, but info I read puts Company B, my uncles company, at Mortain on Aug 11. I can imagine it was about the same everywhere though. I'm glad I finally have a bit of closure.
     
  18. Kyle_and

    Kyle_and New Member

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    Well...got a story from a relative that my great uncle was wounded by a sniper while helping an injured soldier into a barn. He died a couple days later from blood poisoning. Guess that's about as accurate as I can get.

    Suppose it still could have been during the battle of Mortain though
     

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