Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Is there a register of Graves for French military graves?

Discussion in 'Italy, Sicily & Greece' started by Sheldrake, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    355
    Location:
    London UK
    I am planning a visit to the French Cemetery at Venafro and would like to find the grave of Lieutenant el Hadi of 4 RTT who, according to John Ellis, died at the summit of the Colle Abate

    How can I find where this grave is?
     
  2. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    www.ceba.lu
    GRW likes this.
  3. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    www.ceba.lu
    I didn't get any result when I added the details you provided, rank, unit etc......
     
  4. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,377
    Glad you remember this Lieutenant . He died around January 25th at the hill 470 near Cifaclo, not far from hill 721. Despite having lost an arm in the battle kept charging and took his men to victory but died soon after the charge. You'll need to check whether colle Abate and col 721 are the same place.

    http://www.realites.com.tn/2014/11/4e-regiment-de-tirailleurs-tunisiens-aux-soldats-de-la-liberte/

    http://www.cerclealgerianiste.fr/index.php/archives/encyclopedie-algerianiste/histoire/histoire-militaire/la-seconde-guerre-mondiale/273-la-bataille-du-belvedere-secteur-de-cassino

    This guy may know where the hero is buried: (his email and phone number are on his site

    http://paulnicolasmetz.blogspot.fr/2009/04/paul-nicolas.html
     
    Sheldrake likes this.
  5. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    www.ceba.lu
    This might be a hit:

    http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/en/arkotheque/client/mdh/militaires_decedes_seconde_guerre_mondiale/detail_fiche.php?debut=0&ref=1717315


    There is no indication to the rank, cause of death is given as multiple gun shot wounds. If memory serves me right, Capitaine Dené reported that El Hadi was killed by a volley from a machine gun from short range. But there is no indication as to where El Hadi is buried, but you have the Document reference: AC 21 P 179418, maybe you can find out more by asking at the french archives of Service historique de la Défense in Caen.
     
  6. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    19,129
    Likes Received:
    2,211
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    That's a handy search engine, didn't realise it even existed.
     
  7. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    355
    Location:
    London UK
    Thank you very much. That indeed is the man According to the quote from the unit war diary. After being struck by a burst of machine gun bullets he shoudted to the soldier next to him to fire the flare, then stood up shouted to the heavens "vive La France!" and fell dead on the conquered peak.

    Does anyone know where to find the details of where he buried? I assume it must be in Venafro Free French Cemetery, but whno hiolds the registersd?
     
    Skipper likes this.
  8. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,377
    Glad I could help. Actually the 4 RTT would deserve their own thread here. Their feats are Monte Cassino are legendary, but it is often forgotten that they fought hard in Alsace and in Germany too. When they arrived in Alsace some were still wearing sandals from the desert and many sufered severe frost wounds , but kept fighting like devils .
     
  9. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    355
    Location:
    London UK
    I found the war graves link on same site. He does not appear - therefore has no known grave.

    The other chap is Lt Boukkaz, who swore he would reach the sh=ummit. He was shot in the head, so one soldier each sioade sat his corpse on a rifle and with a soldier behind they carried his body up the Colle belvadere.....

    I have put the link before - but Days of Glory is good - and the only tribute to these men..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45TTGT2XhY&list=PL5mR0PxdNDZ7rlAic_Y5r-4O7LqOqinVn
     
    Skipper likes this.
  10. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,377
    I don't actually like Days of Glory too much. It is too biased in my opinion . While many films have neglected the participation of the RTT and other native conscripts , Days of Glory has done the exact opposite by making believe the European were quasi absent , except the officers, which is a lie.

    Some units were native (Tirailleurs Senegalais, Goumiers etc.... ) , some soldiers were mixed and some were Europeans only (zouaves) . Tere were over one million Europeans in Algeria alone prior to 1962 and some of them were drafted like anyone else. Also the 1ère Armée had non colonial units. They all deserve the same merit and one group should not push another in the ditch .

    http://delamarejean.free.fr/Service_Militaire_Obligatroire/html/la_deuxieme_guerre_mondiale10.html


    see November 1943 :
    "l'Armée d'Afrique, volontaires, mobilisés, F.F.L. et survivants de l'ancienne armée d'Afrique"


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]





    [​IMG]






    [​IMG]





    http://www.39-45.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3074&start=50
     

Share This Page