Israels Actions

Cheers up , it looks like a cease fire is on for the coming month ,

hezbollah will run out it's missile stock eventually and the IDF has the
bilious taste of a f**ck up in it's mouth , bad intel , a grinding ground war
the feeling of having stepped into a slugging match on lebannese soil ,
after having said never again , again .
and the small detail of happearing
to be the bully to all the TV viewers outside the U.S.
while all the world foreign ministers run around like mad chickens , looking
for any cameras or mike
israeli goverment and hezbollah are already talking through their usual
channel , the international red cross ( discret , non political , neutral )
about a prisonners exchange , the fine details of the going rate will be
a good indication of who got done .
as for terrorism and collateral damage , well it's war !

 

An interesting website...

http://www.honestreporting.com/

 

This should add some flavor to this thread (excuse the all caps. This is copy/paste, and I didn't feel like re-typing it...):


1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;

2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;

3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;

4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;

5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;

6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;

7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;

8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;

9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;

10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;

11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;

12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGEES WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;

13. THERE ARE 22 ARAB COUNTRIES, AND 57 MUSLIM COUNTRIES. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;

14. FATTAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;

15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;

16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;

17. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.

Comments, anyone?

 

not to mention hudreds of weapons fired into Israel over the past few years....and Lebanon's complaining about a few missiles?

 

Before anybody else says it...

1948 the Arabs started
1956 Israel (along with Britain & France) started
1967 Israel started
1973 the Arabs started
1980s Lebanon - greyer area...

1967 can be argued as necessary pre-emptive action, but 1956 was a pure Israeli invasion of Egyptian territory.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but they ceased to be state in 64 A.D when Romans kicked them out

Not true

So what?

Are you shure that this was only Arab rule? I don't think so (middle ages come to mind here).

So what?

And this means what exactly? And don't start with biblical right here.

I'm no expert, but didn't Mohmed ascend to heaven from the place where mosque of the dome is? How could he do that if he was never in Jerusalem?

So what? I sometimes pray turned to ______ (enter chosen capital) but that doesn't mean that us Slovenes have right to the place.

Noe this is simply not true. BBC mentained radio listning for entire area ( for British goverment) and no such radio transmissions were heared. And you are forgetting couple of massacers of civilian Plaestinian population ( Dir Yassin...)

Which were result of what?

Se previous note

Why should they? Their land was taken and they should now just roll over. Not bloody likley.

Not realy true about those 5 wars isn't it? Now, just who started war in 1956?

Fattah constitution does not call for destruction of Israel any more. Hamas did try to settle with Israel o this point, but was more or less rebuffed. They will not give up this point for nothing in return ( renounce this point and we might talk to you).

Proof please.

Most of these resolutions were dealing with settlements and human right abuses with couple of occupations thrown in. Now Israel is not exactly innocent here.

 

I tend to see the 1948 war invasion differently. If you see your neightbour being mugged by some people on the street do you go out to help him? In this analogy consider the the arab countries neighbours of the person getting mugged and teh muggers the Western powers that are helping create Isreal.

 

No analogy between states and families ever works. Don't use them. Large communities cannot be compared to tiny groups of people like households, they simply operate differently at every level.

In addition to TISO's point:

Israel had been overrun by pretty much every Mesopotamian empire before that, including such illustrious states as Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Macedon and Seleucia.

 

If the arabs were looking out for the palestinians, then why did they take palestinian land along with israel ?

 

Dont understand what you are asking of me. Could you clarify?

 

First up, I think that these points are not Tom's but points he has seen and copied in here to promote debate.

I assume they are playing the pedantic card that the area was ruled by Turks, not Arabs.

I'm no expert, but AFAIK Jews do not face a particular direction to pray. I know many Jews, and have prayed with quite a few, and they never whip out a compass and check where Jeruslamem is first.

Tensions between Jews & Palestinians began back in the late 1800s when the early Zionist began moving into the area. The first attacks were Palesinian on Jew. However, counter-attacks soon followed, and eventually neither side was exactly angelic...

But to keep them living in what is effectively a ghetto / township / shanty-town, when they could at least have a decent standard of living...
Or are they trying to keep hatred alive?

Not the same, but similar. Apparently (I'm not sure I can prove it...) Muslims are digging away around the area of the Dome of the Rock to remove all archeological evidence that the site once held a Jewish temple.

As I say, I can't prove it, and I hope it ain't true. It was someting I read somewhere...

 

Can I just say this:

Israel did not cause itself to be.

They stole no land.


Israel was created by the UN.

 

Last time i checked Gaza (by my opinion just one great koncentration camp) was under Israeli control (and still is), same with west bank.
Most poeple outside the Israeli controled areas tend to settle together (like Cubans in Miami). And they still hope that their current place is still only temporary.

Last poeple doing "some digging" on the temple mound were couple of brits in 1920's but they managed to escape before they were cought. The entire area is off limits for digging. It is probably the only instance where Jews and Palestinians agree completly. All also agree that is the site of the jewish temple so Palestinians have no reason to dig around/under/nearby of it.

There were unrest and single killings but not large scale massacres like Dir Yassin.

I belive that Saladin was acctualy a Kurd and Mameluks were Egyptian.

So a couple of hunded thousand Palestinians that were depossesed are wrong and Israel will eventualy pay (with interests) for the land it took?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_massacre

'unrest' does cover large-scale killings...

Saladin was simply a local govenor within a wider Empire. However, frankly, I am highly sceptical of their '22 year' allegation. I was just trying to be kind to them. Dunno why!

No. Again, on 14th May 1948 Israel as a nation took no land away from anybody.

The UN partitioned the land between Arab and Jew, in a bid to give each side a nation (which niether side had had up to that point) and to stop them killing each other for the sake of a nation.

 

From:
Survival of the Fittest (an interview with Historian Benny Morris)
By Ari Shavit Haaretz, Magazine Section, 9 January 2004

 

That's not too convincing, really, since the actual order was given after the war had started. It could just be a reaction to Arab hostilities. Your very own source states that there is no written evidence of transferring plans being made by Israeli politicians before the war.

 

Does anybody else think that this conflict has too much influence on the political agenda in your respective European countries and get far too much coverage in the media compared to other areas of conflict? Or is it just me?

 

Except for the Suez, Israel started the wars as pre emptive strikes.

 

Surely 1973 was a pre-emptive strike by Syria and Egypt? IIRC things looked very grim for Israel during the first 2 or 3 days.

Tom

 

Yes because they attacvked on Yom Kippur, the Jewish new year.


By the way does it look like its almsot done, for now? At least the Lebaneese agreed to the UN resolution. If Isreal accepts its supposed to end by Monday.

Looks like it isnt WWIII CNN as usual you are WRONG!!!