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Jagdpanthers

Discussion in 'Armor and Armored Fighting Vehicles' started by Leopard2, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. Leopard2

    Leopard2 Member

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    What do you think about the Jadgpanther heavy tank destroyer?
    Wikipedia.org and other resources claim it is considered the best tank destroyer of WW2.
    It's great combination of firepower, good armor and mobility made it a very effective tank killer.
    In one encouner 3 Jagdpanthers destroyed 11 Churchill tanks in 2 minutes, before 2 of them suffered track damage and the third retreated. Cool stuff.

    Do you guys have any information on it? Can't find much about it.
     
  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  3. sommecourt

    sommecourt Member

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    Not for the crews of the Churchills. From your comments, thankfully you haven't seen what happens to tank crew when a vehicle brews up. WW2 wasn't a video game...
     
    A-58, Martin Bull, Joe and 3 others like this.
  4. Leopard2

    Leopard2 Member

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    Easy there. I only meant it's an impressive machine.
     
  5. sommecourt

    sommecourt Member

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    Ok, but let's get our language in perspective when we talk about these things.
     
  6. marc780

    marc780 Member

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    the assault gun concept was never used as widely by the Germans as regular turreted tanks, even though some photos from that era might give one the impression they were all over the battlefield. The Jagdpanther was certainly good for its intended use - it was good on the defense as its main advantage, as well as its biggest weakness over the standard panther was the absence of a turret - this made for a less complex tank and a lower silhouette. After Kursk the Germans spent alot of time on the defense.

    Alot of these assault guns (besides Jagdpanther there were several other types notably the Sturmgeshutz III) were either regular Panthers that had turret trouble or damage and were simply converted over, or were obsolete models like the PVKW III that had too light armor but were still useful in the assault gun role.

    You see many pictures of these self-propelled (or assault) guns, some were used as self propelled artillery at times, but like i said the Germans never had very many. Most of the pictures are from late in the war (post Stalingrad) when the Germans were using every piece of armor that would still function. Also note the relative scarcity of this type of tank in modern armies, this was a concept that was viable for a few years in world war 2 until its disadvantages (no turret) made it too obsolete.
    (The US Army today has the M-109, which in appearance is very similar to a WW2 assault gun. But it is basically just self-propelled artillery and is not really intended to take on a tank. Moreover its armor would not stop anything greater than a 50 caliber machine gun, if that.)
     
  7. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    There weren't that many assault guns? The Germans used over 10,635 various marks of the Stug III and StuH 42 from 1940-1945 along with 1,141 Stug IV.
     
  8. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

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    Actually, the Assault gun total production was a major issue. Especially with the introduction of the Hetzer wich would produce a vehicle with good overall protection, a gun that packed a mean punch and which a very low silhouette. Now, join this with a simplicity and you have a planed 1000 units a month.
    As JC stated, the total assault gun production was 10,550 + 1,212 StuH42 + 90 ferdinands + 2,584 Hetzer + 769 Jgpz IV + 930 PzIV/70(A) + 278 PzIV/70(V)+392 JagdPanther + 77 JagdTiger for a grand total of 16,882 assorted assault guns.

    The total production of German tanks was 26,925 half of which were built after 43 (13,638).
    So, Assault gun production was a major deal in the German army. they created battalions and at least one division (IIRC) made up just with assault guns.


    Cheers...
     
  9. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    The Jadgpanther was deployed in about a dozen seperate heavy antitank battalions that were assigned at Army level for use. These battalions rarely had their full complement of Jadgpanther and were usually mixed with Jgpz IV/L70, StuG III or, occasionally Hetzers.
    These units saw service on both the Western and Eastern Fronts from mid 1944 on. Encounters with this vehicle were comparatively rare but frequently occured, as would be expected, at critical points on the front lines.
     
  10. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Also, I believe that just over 400 of them were made. Is that correct?
     
  11. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    According to this website:


    Jagdpanzer IV Sd. Kfz. 162 - 75mm L/48 (1944)


    It was:





    This website includes everything you would ever want to know.
     
  12. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

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  13. razin

    razin Member

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    I assume you mean Jagdpanthers 392 from two manufactures,

    With regard to Jagdpanther Vs Churchills if you look at Peter Beales Book Tank Tracks -a history of the 9th Btn RTR available to read on line at RTR web site,

    Home Page - The Royal Tank Regiment

    Churchill crews were more able to deal with them by the time of the fighting in the Reichswald.

    the increasing confidence of Churchill crews in dealing with SPGs in particular seems to grow from October 1944 which tends to make me think that the spectacular losses by the Scotts guards and the 7th and 9th RTR could be put down to surprise and inexperience- certainly the three Jagdpanther crews involved must have been very expierienced.
     
  14. Hufflepuff

    Hufflepuff Semi-Frightening Mountain Goat

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    I think that the Jadgpanther suffers from the same problems as other late German tanks: they preferred quality over quantity, and they suffered from mechanical failures, although they were heavily armed and armoured. Also, the Jagdpanther came too late to change anything IMHO.

    Its an impressive looking machine though; very fear-imposing :)
     
  15. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    OH I see, I seem to have misread, ah everything.:eek::eek:


    If anybody needs me I will be drowning my sorrows in the corner.:wail:
     
  16. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    And I missed the quote of the number of jagdpanthers that were constructed in post 8. Which corner are you in? I'll be there in a minute. Can't drown sorrows properly without beer. I hear that Za either sells or bootlegs beer. Where is he when you need him!
     
  17. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    The one in the round room:D


    While we wait for Za's 'shipment' to arrive I do have this hidden the attic.:fuhrerwein:


    I stole it from Hitler himself.
     
  18. Wolfy

    Wolfy Ace

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    Why is the Jagdpanther called the best tank destroyer of WW2?

    I'd say that title goes to the M-36 slugger with the 90mm gun (and it has a turret, too!..)
     
  19. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    No glasses, then we'll brother-in-law it....
     
  20. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    The mechanical problems were likely worse. The transmission was the same as in the Panther. Since the Jadgpanther would have to use that much harder than the straight tank (ie., having to move the tank to position it for firing versus rotating the turret) I would assume that it is more prone to breakdown.
    Like the Jadgtiger an added difficulty is getting the transmission out and back into the vehicle. In a Jadgpanther this would require removing the gun and roof of the fighting compartment among other things.
     

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