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Jagdtigers in combat?

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by Ceraphix, Mar 23, 2008.

  1. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    John, the war closed 63 years ago, I think that is pleanty of time to get used to the idea, especially as you are in your twenties...

    As for the Land question, that's pure and unadulterated first class bullshit. There's absolutely NO WAY Germany needed to invade a single acre of land belonging to another country for agricultural reasons. Any country, I say again, any country can make up an agricultural shortfall (if any such exists outside the absolute poorest Third World) through regular imports paid off by industrial or services export.

    What you are saying refers to the lousiest, most ridiculous pseudo-bucolic mythology as propounded by such Thousand Years Reich luminaries as Walther Darré and Alfred Rosenberg. Which I believe you never read, by the way.

    Huffy, vehicles rarely travel alone, so when they find themselves in such straits there's always somebody (another vehicle or infantry) ready and willing to "scratch their back" (US Army parlance), that is, spray a burst or two on the vehicle's back to clear off the assaillant.
     
  2. Hufflepuff

    Hufflepuff Semi-Frightening Mountain Goat

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    I understand that, I'm just wondering if its physically possible.
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Technically yes, on a parade ground with a stopped tank :) But as we say here, I started to believe in everything since I saw in the circus a bear riding a bike ;)

    A molotov cocktail on the engine grilles is much easier and more efficient than your "knock-knock who's there" trick.
     
  4. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    In answer to the question. Not at all likely simply for the fact that they are locked from the inside and that infantrymen rarely got a chance to climb up on enemy tanks in combat. IF it was that easy it would have happened alot. Most of the time Grenades and Molotov cocktails were used on the top of the rear areas of the tank to try and disable the engines or damage the viewports and periscopes,ect.
     
  5. Ceraphix

    Ceraphix Member

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    Erm, not to sound rude or anything, but is this sarcastic or am I imagining?
     
  6. acker

    acker Member

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    I heard of a German account where, after his commanding officer's tank broke down, he used bombs to disable a couple Soviet T-34s.

    I suppose that, though it could happen to unsupported tanks, it didn't happen too often on the Western Front.
     
  7. FramerT

    FramerT Ace

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    Short and to the point Za. And how true. Take away their transport and Tigers and Panthers were in for a long grueling road march. Anyone with the least bit of knowledge about Tigers,etc. should know road marches were not their fortee.

    As for infantry clammering up on Tigers to pry open the hatch, very unlikely. As already mentioned, just jam a charge in the turret ring or engine fan and run.
    I have read whether or not it was true about German troops rapping on the turret of a T-34 with a pistol butt to get the commander to open up.
    If I knew which book it was in, there are a couple pics of either a Tiger or a Panther with barbed wire strung around it to keep infantry from climbing on.
     
  8. Joe

    Joe Ace

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    Then I have a question. How do the crew get inside the vehicle with the barbed wire on it?
     
  9. Mibo

    Mibo Member

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    Maybe there is a "clip" spmewhere n the barbed wire, that lets the crew to "open" it, so that they can climb on and clip it back together. I really dunno, just guessing. :p

    Or maybe they flew, they were nazis afterall...
     
  10. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    They say: "Open Sesame".

    Which is rather less foolish than other stuff I've been reading in this forum lately.
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    My main feeling on Jagdtigers is that the one at Bovington still just makes me giggle.
    "I am vanting ein uberpanzer zat vill laszt fur ein souzand yearz!!!!!!!"

    I have one anecdote from David Fletcher's 'Mr Churchill's tank' (sorry for the repetition, sure I've mentioned it before, I just like it);

    Postwar the main 128mm gun from one was fired at a Churchill with 3 live chickens in the turret from 100 yards range, I can only imagine they were very bored on the ranges that day.

    The turret: Torn off.
    The Chickens: Survived.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  12. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Is that a Freikörperkultur chicken?
     
  13. FramerT

    FramerT Ace

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    Schneider's "Tigers in Combat I". Page 60.
    "Barbed wire has been placed around the tanks hull to prevent enemy infantry from attempting to climb onto the tank during combat."
    Another good pic on page 243. My scanner isn't working so no pictures....sorry.


    Back to discussing SturmTigers in Stalingrad and prying open locked hatches.
    Cheers.
     
  14. Carl W Schwamberger

    Carl W Schwamberger Ace

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    Theres a translation pf a AAR of a French tank officer from 1940. Commanding in a squadron of H39 light tanks his troop was withdrawing from a Belgian villiage that had been assualted by a German battle group. As his tank left the villiage his driver called out that he had just run over a German soldier. In resposne to the officers inquiry the driver said a German solder had risen from the ground adjacent to the tank with a hammer and attempted to clamber onto the tank. Then slid off and under tracks. Later while inspecting the tank the officer noticed bits of fabric and flesh caught in the tracks.
     
  15. marc780

    marc780 Member

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    desperation + Hitler = Jagdtiger
     
  16. JuiceWeasel

    JuiceWeasel Member

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    On paper the things a nightmare...the reality was much different however. An overloaded suspension and lack of a turret made it difficult to use in anything but a sniping role...even then it was bound to fall victim to aircraft.

    Having just finished Otto Carius's book "Tigers in the Mud" I can tell you about 2 incidents that the Jadtiger was involved in. Carius manged to destroy a Sherman by shooting through a house using a delayed fuze round. An impressive feat to say the least...but then again it was under Carius's command at the time.

    The other occasion mentioned in the book involved a inexperienced crew. Sighting a group of Shermans at a distance Carius ordered the Jadtiger to go into position on top of a hill. The commander failed to disengage the travel brace for the main gun and as soon as he crested the hill was immediately fired on by the Shermans. At this distance the Shermans had no chance of penetrating the Jadtigers frontal armor...but since the gun was still locked in place it could not answer back.

    Rather than back up down the hill and disengage the travel brace and not expose his flank to the enemy the commander pivoted so that he could go down hill forwards rather than backwards. Predictably the result was the Jadtiger being riddled with fire as soon as it's side was exposed...no one escaped the esnuing fire.

    Despite the advantages enjoyed by the Jadtiger in this instance poor tactics lead to the complete loss of vehicle and crew. Carius himself never realy liked the vehicle as it had no turret and having commanded a Tiger he very much felt the lack of this important tool.
     
  17. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    This is a contradiction. If on paper the thing's a nightmare (apostrophe added), the reality being much different implies it would be either better or... worse. And then you go on to provide a couple of examples that show neither.

    And let's see... a delayed fuse projectile? What type of a projectile is this? What projectiles of this kind would be available for the 12.8cm PaK 44? And to do such a "devastating" effect the projectile should have impacted the target. What is the probability of hitting a target that is defiladed behind a visual obstacle?
     
  18. JuiceWeasel

    JuiceWeasel Member

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    I didn't write the book I mearly quoted it. Carius doesn't say what type of round he fired other than it was a delayed fuze. Given the power of the 128mm and the abilities of a commander like Carius I see no reason to doubt the assertion that a stationary tank could be hit by firing through a building.

    Consider this: Being a vetran of almost 4 years on the Eastern Front and able to see a small portion of the target vehicle protrude from cover it wouldn't take a huge mathematical leap to figure out where the main body of the tank is would it. If you saw a man's head protruding above a fence you could probably figure out fairly easily where his torso is couldnt you?

    As for your other critique I wan't linking the 2 points. I simply gave my impression of the vehicle and then went on to write about Carius's experience with them as that what was asked for in the opening question at the begining fo the thread. Thought that was fairly self explanatory...apparently not!?!
     
  19. joseph hadley

    joseph hadley New Member

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    I have just been reading danny s. Parker's battle of the bulge book by greenhill books, in this book it states that hitler had ordered the 653rd panzerjager battalion to assist the 6th panzer armee, the battalion was still on rail transports when an allied air attack blocked it & it did not arrive in time to assist the 6th panzer armee, this is on page 69 of the book.
    days after the offensive began, the american reinforcements had started to arrive from the north, hitler asked where are the jagdtigers general herbert buchs a staff officer at okw had bad news for the fuhrer "a check has been made mein fuhrer & the trains bringing the battalion forward has been blocked by an air attack on the rail lines", the fuhrer was outraged.
    A message to OB West on december 29th had confirmed that an air attack had blocked the battalion but 2 of the 9 jagdtigers had disembarked and had moved forward 1 of these appears to have been knocked out west of St. Vith and had been sketched in early 1945 by a teenage belgian civilian, the rest of the battalion now reinforced by more jagdtigers bringing the strength up to 26 jagdtigers had been sent south to participate in the nordwind offensive.
     

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