Japanese bloody killed abuse European POWS during the world war 2.

You answer your own question. With the bulk of Japan's army deployed in China giving aid to the Kuomintang was logical for the west. The Kuomintang, for better or worse, was the closest thing China had to a national government at this time, and Mao's forces were still seen as a 'bandit' army rather than the future of the Chinese people.

Even without China's effort there was a limit to how far Japan could go. Any attempt to capture Austrailia, New Zealand or India would require more shipping than Japan had to effect. Armies must be transported, fed and supplied for long periods of time and unlike the operations in China, these would not be so self supporting and far more easily disrupted.

 

I don't know where this thread is going. And why do you call the Soviet military "cowards"? There are cases early in the war of soldiers charging entrenched German positions virtually unarmed in an attempt to capture them. Of course, they were "prodded" by the commissars to attack, but I still wouldn't call them cowards.

If you think the soviets were "cowards", I invite you to read some of the citations for those awarded the title of "Hero of the Soviet Union": Google Translate

Maybe our friend Dexter Livingstone has returned?

 

Why the Russians are rubbish ,because they rob the fruits in against Japan war.Who most the sacrifices in fight against Japan, It is China KMT.
Do you know Soviet Union support a lot of weapons and equiqments to CCP overturn China KMT govment in 1945-1949. It's the most shameless in human history!

If soviet union dare fight a big campaign against China commnuist party in 1969! I think numerous soviet people will dead! Why USA invite soviet union attack Japanese after USA Own nuclear weapon! Perhaps USA and Soviet union are both European countries, they are same race,They don't want China get some benefitcial from the Japanese war! Becase when USA own nuclear weapon,Japanese must be surrender,there no need soviet army "win" the Japan.
But USA gave up support China KMT goverment in 1949,USA president Trumen pay back at once.54000 American die in Korean war, and China commnuist party help north Vietnam killed 69000 American,and more wounded in Vietnam war!

The human history tell us,don't too do many bad thing like Soviet union and Japan,If you are a bad guy,you must pay back sooner or later!

Sorry,but my grandfather was China KMT militaryman,he defend his country and justice ,freedom of human being on the Earth! And I always pround of that!
Even the China KMT had die in 1949,but our faith never die.

"quote:wer to your question. There is no bravest nation. Italy had perhaps the worst military but was blessed with brave and dedicated people in its military. The German military served the worst of causes and yet had some of the best people as well. We try to seperate the men and women who fought from leaders who sent them into battle as much as possible. An evil person who does evil things deserve our contempt, but not all people are evil simply because they serve in a military that is lead by a evil man or has evil people within it.

It should be remembered that the USSR attacked Japan at the US request. By that time the US had some reason to regret asking, but was in no position to prevent the act any longer."[/QUOTE]

 

The world war two is biggist conventional war in human history.
The third world war are "nuclear war."
When Pandora's box open, The world was over.Use nuclear weapons are destructivc youself. Nobody would escape and perfect when he used nuclear weapons in third world war.
If Hilter face nuclear weapons,or he surrender,or he stayed at home,dare not initiated a world war.

 

At the time that the US requested Soviet aid in the Pacific War the Atomic bomb was under developement and not yet proven. Nor was it sure to be ready before an invasion of the Home Islands would be ready. It made good sense to ask for Soviet aid. It is true that the Soviet Union attacked for thier own reasons as much as becauser of the US request. It is also true that the USSR stripped the region it captured of everything of value, but the country had been devastated by the German invasion and desparately need the resources to rebuild. I am not saying it is right or fair, just understandable within its context.

There was no conspiracy between the USSR and the US to prevent China from getting its due. Each nation did however act in its own best interests, which is only to be expected.

By the time the US stopped aiding the KMT they had done so for nearly a decade and was losing to the forces of Mao. In all things there comes a time to cut your losses and accept that which you cannot change. Even so that the ROC still exists today is due to American support.

There is cause and effect in history, but as many tyrants have died peacefully in thier sleep as old men as those who have suffered fror thier crimes. A sad but true fact of history.

We respect you feelings but we ask you respect the feelings of others on this forum, some from Russia, others decended from Russia and now living around the world.

 

Do you know there were more than 2.6 millions Japan empire army in China battle filed in
peak times. China KMT troops killed or wounded oversee 1 millions Japanese soldiers in war.If these Japanese troops put into pacific battlefield. How many American and English people they can kill or wound? Execpt USA and Britain, Japanese were also attacked Canada,Australia,French and Netherland army in pacific war!
How do you know Japanese imperilst lack of ship?
USA and Japan Empire the battleships loss in pacific war
Begin of war, Japan Empire navy owe fight rows warships 10 aircraft carriers 10,cruiser 41,auxillary ships 14, destroyers 111,submarines 64, shore defense ships 4,total 254 warships, 1067870 tons.
Built up during wars: fight rows warships 2, aircraft carriers 15, cruisers
6, auxiliary ships 3, destroyers 63, submarines 126, shore defense ships 168, total 383 battleships, 858250 tons.
Count in both, total 637 ships, 1926120 tons.
Outcomes: 410 battleships sink, 1383950 吨，injury 59 ships, 284520 tons. Remnant battleships, 257650 tons.
Remnant warships 168, only 43 warships possess war ability, include aircraft 1,cruisers 3, mother ships 3,destroyers 16, submarines 7.
Japan’s merchandize ships and oil ships: there were 5. 9 millions tons built up 4.1 millions tons during pacific wars, total 10 millions tons. Sink
8.617 tons during wars, damaged 0.937 tons, total 9.554 tons.
Enlist allies countries loss: fight rows warships 4 (American 2, English 2), aircraft carriers 10, (include envoy carriers 5). Heavy cruisers 9 (American 7, English 2), light cruiser 6 (American 3, English 1, Netherland 2), destroyers 65(American 56, English 2, Netherland 7), submarines 57(American 52, Netherland 5), others warships 36, total 187 sink.
Allies oils and merchandize ships: loss 0.77 millions tons.
Japan loss planes: 26285, in the middles of the data loss 17000 in battles.
Allies planes loss: approximately 32000, US army 27000, in the middles of the data 21647 lost in battles. Include land force air teams loss 13055 fight against Japan. Navy air teams loss 8592.
Other allies English, Netherlands, Austria, India, Canada loss planes estimate under 1000. China KMT loss planes 4000.

Many Japanese soldiers battled in China before were skilled worker. If these workers work in Japanese factory,They could made more carriers,battleships,guns,cannons ,submarines and armors.

 

Your original question pertained to which nation had the "bravest soliders". I personally think that is a dumb question. You bashed the Soviets for being cowards, and I responsed by trying to show you that the average soviet soldier was not a coward. My personal opinion is that unless you were in that situation, you have no right to call anyone a coward.

I never bashed Taiwan, in fact I never even addressed it in my message. I merely pointed out a fact..

This is unrelated to both your original post and the one to which I replied. Furthermore, this is hardly justitifaction for labelling all the Soviets as cowards. The Japanese fought against your country as well -- are they cowards? What about the soldiers of the PRC? By that logic, I don't like Apple products -- hence Steve Jobs and everyone with an Apple product is a coward? Its past history -- if you concentrate only on the past, you will become defined by it.

Ok, a few things here.
1 - Russia and the US are not "both European countries". In fact, neither of them are. Furthermore, their citizens are not of the same "race".
2 - The Soviets wanted to grab up chunks of Manchuria to solidify their southern border and keep the Allies from building a strong presence along said border. Of course, this is a great oversimplification. Read up on this.

I understand where you are coming from, but you have no reason to violently bash the countries that fought against him on a forum. I don't know what you are trying to achieve here -- this is a WW2 "HISTORY" forum, not one for geopolitics.

 

No one disputes that a large portion of the Imperial Army was deployed in China, but some of your figures are in dispute, especially the number of Japanese KIA-WIA in China. I will not degrade the effort of the Chinese people, but they were not entirely well served by either the Kuomitang government or that of Mao's communists as both were more interested in defeating the other more so than the Japanese.

The shipping I refered to was merchantmen hulls. All of Japans Industry was in the Home Islands and Manchuria, so resources need to come into there then travel out to the supply the conquests. If Japan was self sufficiant in food perhaps not a problem, but that also had to come home to Japan. Japans Merchant fleet began to decline almost from the beginning of war with the west and simply got worse as each month progressed unlike the US/Britain who gained in every catagory during the same period.

 

We know the Japanese lacked shipping, because the statistics are available to us.

Your attempt to show that the Japanese had a sizable navy, is easily defeated because, you, either intentionally or unintentionally, ONLY included Japanese shipping production, but not Allied warship production. So let's lay down some basic facts:
Warship Production (1941-45)
CV/CVL/CVE: Japan - 17: US - 141
Battleships: Japan - 2: US - 10
CA/CL: Japan - 9: US - 48
Destroyers: Japan - 63: US - 349
Submarines: Japan - 167: US - 203

Merchant Shipping Production (1939-45)
Japan - 4,152,361 GRT
United States - 33,993,230 GRT

So, as you can see, the United States easily outproduced Japan in both warships and Merchant vessels. Further, the United States could take several warship losses, because they knew of the great masses that were then building on the slipways. For the Japanese, every warship lost was essentially irreplaceable. Also worthy of note is that these production figures don't take into consideration what Great Britain was producing.

Extremely unlikely, Japan had been "stuck" in China since 1931-32, but had continued to produce and modernize their warships, aircraft, and tanks/tankettes. Japan's downfall in production was not workers, but raw materials and the production tools necessary to produce them in quantity and quality. Japan was still mostly and agrarian state, only recently beginning to mechanize her production and workforce.

 

Gentlemen I will aks you to keep this thread civil. We do'nt often have the opportunity to have a Chinese member here, so don't be too harsh with him, his input could be interesting and he can certainly learn from us too. If we only focuss on the negative aspect and dispute figures then this thread could turn off track and I would have close it.



Ciwocw , I'll ask you to be more moderate when you talk about the Soviets. You may not like them, but there is no need to call them "rubbish" .

I will be watching this thread.

 

Well, just to keep this thread "grounded" in civility.

There is no forthcoming "new" book published on October 20th, called "Marine Massacre: Japanese naval war crimes". The article is referring to Mark Felton's "Slaughter at Sea: The Story of Japan's Naval War Crimes." published back in 2007.

Now, I have not read this book, but I have read "Ships from Hell: Japanese War Crimes on the High Seas" by Raymond Lamont-Brown(2002) -*note* this book covers all matters of Japanese naval atrocities and not just their "Hell Ships"- and Bernard Edwards "Blood and Bushido: Japanese Atrocities at Sea 1941-1945."(1991) - which focuses on specific incidents in the Indian Ocean.

I'm asking if Mark Felton's book is a worthy purchase considering other published sources.

 

You are come from Canada.I said Russians are cowards offense you?
If the Soviet union are not cowards ,why they only dare attack Japanese war after USA drop on nuclear bombs to Japanese. Then Soviet unions rob the fruits against Japan easily,without any price!
The Japanese killed and insulted these European POWS come from USA ,English ,Netherland,French ,Canada and Australia. I don't say the POWS were cowards ,they own deserve any respectful. After all, they battle to the Japan empire face to face.
And I am not a Tawainese, I am a Chinese.

 

ciwocw, This is not a forum to insult the soldiers of any nation. You were warned, thread closed.